Wanting a relationship with your Mistress....

Sometimes I think forums like this are a form of therapy, so in that spirit, here goes.

Has anyone here ever fallen in for their Mistress?

This is not attempt to top-from-the-bottom. I am not talking about a lifestyle couple, or a live-in slave.

I am talking about a typical submissive who sessions often with a Mistress and falls for her - either in besotted lust or a combination of lust and romantic love. It is probably an impossible situation of unrequented feelings.

Has it happened to anyone? How was it resolved?

As for any of the Dominas... did you ever been attracted to one of your clients?

It almost happened to me once but the Mistress was kind. I was in deep subspace with her... she seemed attracted but kept me at arms' length emotionally (and sometimes physically) but we both knew there was an attraction. She retired, we kept in touch but... it ended.

It is a personal and impossible situation. Does anyone want to share any experiences?

I have become very close to some of my long term subs. I also have a personal slave that I consider a close friend. However I don't date My clients. I believe in the old saying "what starts in the Dungeon needs to stay in the Dungeon."

Mistress Ultra Violet

Mistress, you are a wise woman.

I think you are right Junglepet, this is likely an impossible situation. There is a pretty famous case though, Famous Domina Ilsa Strix and Larry Wachowski, director of the Matrix. The Story is here: http://lecter.org/forum/showthread.php?t=248

I imagine often the sub falls for the Domina and that the Domina gets pretty good at holding the Sub off.

In psychoanalysis there is the concept of transference where the person's intense feelings about another person are transferred to the analyst. One common form of this is erotic attraction and there all too many male analysts willing to use this phenomenon to exploit attractive female clients. (Though not all transference is erotic. For instance hostility can manifest instead)

I believe some degree of transference often occurs in subs who see a domme regularly and exclusively for an extended period. Speaking personally there were 2 dommes whom I initially regarded as only mildly attractive but after several sessions found much more attractive and in both instances realized I was experiencing transference.

A very wise statement by Mistress Ultra Violet, indeed. I have seen the results from disobeying this rule happen to others on two different occasions. It didn't end well. I think The Thomas is correct in that transference is common. That's why it soon falls apart outside of the dungeon, when the sub realizes he fell for a "real" woman, with real world problems and issues - not the fantasy Domme that could do nothing wrong.

I think boundaries are there for a reason, and they always should be respected, period. At the same time, we’re all human, and we all have human emotions that often emerge subconsciously rather than through rational choice. Interests in friendship or something more happen, and while I don’t doubt that there’s a psychological explanation sometimes, there also are times when those interests or feelings are just part of human nature. In vanilla life, it’s not that uncommon to meet someone you’re attracted to in a professional setting, even though that person might be your boss, or one or both parties are already in a committed relationship. It’s what you do with that attraction that matters.

As in any professional environment, acting out isn’t going to end well. Self-control and self-regulation are essential. They’re traits that in part separate adults from juveniles, and they’re signs of respect for self and others. So if interests in a relationship or feelings for a professional play partner emerge, one has to keep them in check. If you can’t, or those emotions are negatively affecting one's behavior or mood in or out of the dungeon, I think it’s best to break contact.

That said, it’s a fallacy to think relationships never happen when there’s mutual interest. They may be rare, but the Ilsa Strix and Lana Wachowski example certainly isn’t the only one out there. That relationship received a lot of attention (and criticism) back in the day due to the stature of both parties in their respective professions, but it wasn’t the first time boundaries were crossed by willing participants, and it also wasn’t the last.

Folks that were playing 15 years ago might remember how Ilsa Strix and Larry (Lana) Wachowski were criticized in BDSM circles (for breaking boundaries), as well as in the media for a host of reasons. Rolling Stone even did an expose’ on them that IMO denigrated and painted a woefully inaccurate picture of BDSM (and cross dressing too). Seems a lot of folks just lost sight of the fact that the Domme and sub involved were real people, and their spouses at the time were affected by all this too. All to say, I think it’s important to keep in mind that we’re all human, and we all have human emotions.

I never played with Ilsa at her LA dungeon, but I used to run into her at the Vault in NYC once in a while. She was an awesome Domme, and a BDSM pioneer in many ways, but also someone you could have a normal conversation with. I live in Chicago, where the Wachowski brothers have always had their studio, and Karin (Ilsa) and Lana (Larry) are well known in the city for their support for the LGBTQ community. They do fund raisers together, and Karin (Ilsa) is a Trustee for Chicago House, an organization that provides a variety of services for the LGBTQ community and those marginalized by gender non-conformity and HIV/AIDS. Pretty awesome stuff IMO.

Just an aside, but Lana Wachowski is a recipient of the Human Rights Campaign Visibility Award and the Freedom Award from Equality Illinois. And the other half of the Wachowski brothers team, Andy, also is transgender. She made her first public appearance as Lilly Wachowski last month at the GLAAD awards in LA.

Finally, while I can understand the appeal of the fantasy Domme who’s the epitome of perfection, I personally find it healthier and more appealing to know my play partner is a real person, with a real life outside the dungeon, even though she may be a 24/7 lifestyle Domme.

Great Message, 2 city! Thanks!

I adore My pets and allow those who serve Me properly for an extended period of time to become My personal slaves but never due I allow a client to date Me!



Empress Ming

I just finished the book "Concertina" - by Susan Winemaker. It just reconfirms everything I've ever thought about dungeon romances - doomed for failure.

https://www.amazon.com/Concertina-Loves-...susan+winemaker

If you were to rate this novel on Amazon how many stars would you give it?

I would give it 4 stars out of 5. Her references to cooking get a bit tedious at times, but it is an interesting read. The only other memoir of a Dominatrix I have read was Whip Smart and this is much better. I think it gives you an insight into the mind of a ProDomme that has only a mild interest in BDSM outside of her work - which I think is quite common.

She worked in London and they do things a bit differently over there - evidently ;-) I actually recognized one of the Dungeons and Mistresses (even though she changed the name) from My visit there a few years ago. That was a bit of a jolt.

I feel that anyone can successfully form a relationship with anyone if both people have enough self awareness and the emotional and spiritual maturity that usually goes along with it. We should be careful about over segmenting our lives. I'm not saying there aren't challenges to a former client blossoming into a lover but of course it can be done.

I've had many longtime submissives. And many play friends. However, dating your domme is a clouded fantasy. It never happens.

Very deep and emotional feelings for a Pro Domme has happened to me multiple times and I have no problem sharing the experiences but it has also never been a purely unrequited experience for me so it may not be applicable to the situation you are asking about.

Domme #1 was someone local to me and is the reason I will no longer visit local Pros because it is too intense and overwhelming without the natural limit that distance brings. We both felt (and still feel) deeply for each other but for a lot of complex personal reasons on both sides of the fence it never transitioned into anything beyond a friendship outside of the dungeon. It "ended" when she abruptly retired for personal reasons then moved to another state about a year later. We still keep in touch (I am invited to her wedding) and she will always own a piece of my heart but we never actually were romantically involved while sessioning together for three years and I was desperate in many ways for that to happen.

Domme #2 was a touring Pro Domme who I met and had the most amazing chemistry with (and still do even after a ridiculous number of sessions over the past 10 years or so). Because of this chemistry, we decided to take it to another level at a certain point and I spent time in more personal service to her for a day or two at a time where we had a chance to get to know each other and things were going great and I really thought this was the first Domme that I might be willing to actually dedicate myself to in a real way (I am very poly in my approach to relationships, both D/s and vanilla). Unfortunately, over time, I came to understand her approach to real time subs in a lifestyle context and it REALLY didn't mesh with how I need to be treated in a relationship (we didn't have an actual problem, it was just very clear that as great as our play styles meshed and how much I like her as a person, she truly feels subs are to be treated as unworthy slaves as part of her existence and that is just not me). Since that time, we have moved back into a pure Pro/client relationship and have a great time when we get together but that realization of our chemistry not translating into anything "real" was incredibly painful.

Domme #3 was also a touring Pro and our relationship deepened when I started hosting her on her trips to Detroit. Through multiple visits we basically transitioned from Pro/client to a semi-lifestyle relationship but not really a dating one. At one point when she was in between romantic relationships we had a general conversation about what she expects from her boyfriend/Alpha but again my poly approach conflicted with her requiring monogamy so it was just obvious that to even discuss dating was pointless (not that she was necessarily offering). There is no doubt that I still love her and I have been a supportive force in her life through multiple major life events of hers but because of both of us being hard-headed about our "life rules", we basically broke off our relationship after 5 years or so and that was ridiculously painful. Today, she still knows she can count on me because she still owns a piece of my heart and we do talk/text every so often even though the breakup was about 18 months ago.

Domme #4 is something that is currently sprouting in my life and we will see where it goes. I met her when she toured into Detroit a little over a year ago and we had a great time. Again, we sort of just fit together and she started to allow me to stay with her and personally serve her when she visits (or if I go visit her). We have even spoken very seriously about visiting other cities together although we have yet to actually do it. Although we are not actually "dating", she does count on me for emotional support at times in ways that most women would ask of a boyfriend rather than just maintaining the aura that Pros have with their clients. On my side of the fence, I have definitely fallen for her as both a Domme and a person. What happens and where it will go, I have no idea.

Those are my experiences and at times there was a good deal of emotional pain and rejection involved even with the feelings being returned to me but I cannot say I regret any of them (and I am at a very good place with all of these women whether we are currently still together or not). To be clear, these are not the only Pro Dommes I have ever seen, care about or done things with outside of sessions (such as having real conversations over lunch/dinner or take on tasks, both personal or kinky) but these are the ones that I have fallen for and each has allowed me beyond the normal borders of Pro/Client in one way or another.

________

Edit:

I dropped one other significant D/s relationship from this list because although she is a Pro Domme, I was never directly her client (even though I met her through other Pro Dommes when I was running camera for a video shoot she was at) and I didn't want to cloud the question, but after reading through all of the other comments I think it is relevant so I wanted to tack it on.

The two of us connected in regards to D/s and as people so our relationship is one where I am both her sub and her boyfriend (she respects my polyness so my seeing other women, either D/s or vanilla, is completely within the bounds of our relationship). This has been our relationship for about 18 months and other than the normal fights that occur between women and men in romantic relationships, there has been nothing strange or wrong about it.

As a follow up to my other reply about my experiences, I think the difference in my relationships is that my approach is one where both the Domme and myself are totally equal as people even though we have agreed to have different and well defined roles within our relationship. That the D/s is about control rather than "worth" and the BDSM is the equivalent of sex in a vanilla relationship. In my own mind, I have always viewed Pro Dommes as real women with real lives and problems that provide a very personal service to me rather than some idealized and untouchable "thing".

I understand the emotional context that can occur during these types of very intimate encounters and how it mostly, but not entirely, occurs on the client side. I also understand how the idea of transference can occur on the client side. But, I also recognize that other professions such as lawyers, doctors and personal trainers can have the same kinds of things occur and these are also intimate in different ways. However, in any of these cases when someone who is providing you with a service for a fee breaks from their professionalism and decides to open up to you as a normal person, it is possible to move into a romantic relationship regardless of the type of professional one you started with. When the professional shows themselves to be a real person with regular interests outside of their job or emotional needs, it is up to the client to either accept that normal person or to reject moving to a more real and romantic one. If my plumber starts telling me about their personal problems, I may not have any interest and find some excuse to get away... or, I may have a long talk as just two people and support them as a normal person and this connection may blossom into something else. If they are a truly hot woman playing with my pipes while crawling around in tight leather, then that is just a bonus.

My point is that, I do not see where a male client dating a female lawyer, doctor or personal trainer that provides them with their services is truly an issue if the attraction is mutual; the communication is open; and the professional part of the relationship is put aside in favor of just being two very real people. I just see that beginning as another layer of complication to a romantic relationship between two people (which are generally messy and complicated enough already). Since most romantic relationships fail (especially D/s based ones which are even more complicated than vanilla), the chance that one that starts from a Pro Domme/client framework will succeed is still not very good and will make you lose a good client you enjoy.

However, in my opinion, it is no more unlikely to succeed as a romantic relationship than one that starts on eHarmony or CollarSpace. It even may be more likely to succeed on the Pro Domme side because you never have to worry about your boyfriend finding out about what you do for a living and you have less chance of them getting hung up on it (although you do have to deal with constant judging from other Pro Dommes). Those things are a constant issue with Pro Domme friends of mine who wish to have "normal" romantic relationships with people who are not part of the D/s community in general and/or specifically the world of Professional Domination (every one I know who hasn't been a real client thinks it is just kinky prostitution and no matter how you try to explain the difference, guys who are not clients generally don't believe the truth of it).

One last point just because I brought it up, although I do think that romantic relationships that start professionally are a little more complicated at the beginning, getting with your plumber never works because that is just wrong no matter how much you are into brown.

Asp

Couldn't agree more with Forsythia, and the point about self-awareness and maturity is spot-on.

The notion that it never happens just isn't factual. Rare yes; and it certainly may be something a particular individual will never do. But just because never is the personal position or experience of one, or even most people, doesn't make it true for everyone.

If you play long enough and get to know people across the country, odds are you'll eventually run into one of these relationships. Karin Winslow and Lana Wachowski are real, not imaginary. There are contemporary examples too. And it will happen between interested, consenting adults in the future.

I think the notion that these relationships are inherently doomed is an overgeneralization too. Of course most will end, just as most vanilla relationships do. And of course there are unique and difficult challenges to overcome. But the end result isn't always predetermined.