Is this BDSM or Abuse?

Here is an interesting story. A famous base ball player was hooking up with a woman who was into aspects of bdsm, including being choked out and being slapped in the face. After the second hook up, she left with two black eyes and ended up in the hospital. She claims he was punching her and had anal sex with her while she was unconscious. Apparently, another woman had gotten a restraining order on him after a similar experience. He has a text from her stating that she asked him for "All of the pain." It is court now. This article contains more details. What is your take on the situation?

I'm not excusing the Trevor's behavior. But, what the hell was the woman thinking? Negotiate your scenes and choose partners with self responsibility.

Anal sex while she was asleep? Sounds like rape to me.

If I read the article correctly, she wasn't just sleeping. She had been rendered unconscious. (This according to her side of the story.) The man's defense is that he removed his penis from her ass when she woke up and asked him to.

Yes, she was careless in playing someone at such a level that she didn't know. She delivered herself to that. But, it still doesn't make what he allegedly did right.

I've been keeping up on this. It has the look of consensual bdsm gone too far. Trevor Bauer's suspension over an encounter in his personal sex life went too far, in my book. This should have been handled as a private matter.

I knew Trevor Bauer was suspended but hadn’t paid any attention to the circumstances until reading about it here and reading the article. It’s definitely an interesting situation involving bdsm , consent and what is legal. It’s definitely not a black and white thing and more a blurred line.

Obviously consent can be given and then withdrawn and I think that is more clear in vanilla sex. With bdsm it’s a greyer area. There’s SSC RACK and then more complicated consensual non consent. I think a Pro Domme is going to be more aware of this then amateurs playing in a private setting especially if they are not regular partners.

In the Bauer case I am going back and forth about whether it’s bdsm or abuse. There’s arguments that can be made for each. My feeling is that with everything I’ve read there’s not enough for a criminal conviction. More possibly is a successful civil suit. The other woman in the past with similar allegations makes me think Bauer is taking advantage and crossing the line into abuse. This has gotten publicity because it’s a high profile professional athlete but I’d imagine the same issues come into play in other peoples private bdsm play as well.

Are you mad? If this bozo wasn't a sports god, there'd be a lynch mod assembling in his front yard. What we have here is a simple case of assault, sodomy, and rape.

I have a close friend who works as a pro sub in the city. Just like a Domme, she has limits and boundaries.

This worthless piece of dog shit should not only never play baseball again, he should never see the outside of a prison cell.

It certainly seems like this crossed the line. If not legally than in the context of acceptable play behavior. Although, as in most he said/she said situations, it's almost impossible to know for sure.

I think that this quote from one of the BDSM experts in the article really seemed to sum up the pair of them.....

“In the BDSM world, you would not want to be playing with … well, either of them, frankly.”

If nothing else this situation serves as a reminder that the more intense or advanced the play, the more critical it is to have clear and detailed negotiations about specific activities and limits before hand.

In BDSM play "go slow and get to know your partner" is always great advice. I have dabbled in the past with CNC play but it was always in the context of a committed long term relationship or with a well established Pro Domme with a sterling reputation.

No, I'm not mad. The man might be a piece of shit for all I know. It reads like a poorly planned bdsm encounter gone wrong. What I don't like is the call to judgement before facts are known.

No, Mam. It certainly doesn't. I don't consider an athletic man punching a woman in the face bdsm. She allegedly asked for this to happen. That is the man's defense anyway. I've seen people get themselves into bad situations by playing alone with people they do not know well. As someone who has played often as a switch, I strongly encourage kinksters to choose their play partners wisely.

If it goes to trial, it will be interesting to watch. I've filmed some pretty extreme scenes. Maybe this makes me a hypocrite. But, I can't stomach the thought of a man punching a woman in the face to the point that she leaves with two black eyes. As another poster pointed out, his defense is that she asked for this. But, I've also heard that she said she liked to be smacked. There is a huge difference. So, like you, I don't know how this will fall criminally. The legal professionals involved can make a big difference in whether or not it even gets heard.

If I'm not mistaken, they could find him criminally liable for punching her and causing her to lose consciousness. This, even if she consented. Usually when a bdsm "Expert," makes a statement, I roll my eyes. BDSM is so subjective and people can get overly opinionated on their version of it. But, this time, I agree with what the "Expert" said. There was a lot of irresponsibility go on. The woman did not deserve to get beat up like, under any circumstances. But, sadly, she did put herself in that situation. Hopefully, she has learned to be more careful. It could have been much worse.

I agree. Although I have always thought that given that they are often in a position of having physical control over a sub, tops have an even greater responsibility.

Absolutely. I started as a sub and began switching a few years later. Now I prefer the top side. It is something to be taken seriously. It can be more work than pleasure. The bottom should be able to let go. The release for the bottom is usually the entire point of the exchange. I like to sub here and there. But I only do it with someone that I know well and trust.

Thinking about it his actions probably crossed the line into abuse. He’s a weird guy, probably an asshole who took advantage of the situation. Still I don’t see him being convicted criminally in this case. I’m sure he’d ask for a jury trial and there seems to be too much of a grey area to get 12 jurors to agree on guilt. The victim would have to testify and it seems with all the text messages and communication between them she would be vulnerable on cross examination.

It’s an interesting case for the bdsm community and people in general. What can you legally consent to? How much consensual bodily harm is legal? I’ve read a very well written blog by an extremely literate and intelligent retired pro Domme and switch who was a sub or maso in her personal life. Some of the stuff she described being done to her made my blood boil. But it was complicated.

And this is based on UK law so may be different in the USA and potentially different on a state level as well.

But if he has sex with her whilst she was jnconcious she was not able to give consent(and he has admitted that) therefore he will 99.9999999% be convicted

You bring up a good point. It will be interesting to see if this case sees the inside of a court room.

Interesting. If she had given consent for the sexual act and then lost consciousness would doing so automatically revoke that consent? Would the fact that he stopped as soon as she regained consciousness and revoked consent be any kind of defense?

Wouldn't make any difference in uk law

Once somebody is unconscious they can not give consent what happens before or after is not relevant at that point

I think first one went too far, but I wonder if she safe word or not. Second one, not sure what happened, she literally asked for it.

There within lies the argument of the alleged offender. I just don't know how a man can justify giving a woman two black eyes to the point that she passes out. There is no safe wording at the point someone is unconscious. My guess is that this will never make it court. He'll pay her off.

I truly don't know the details of the situation.. News is reported by accuser's perspective, would like to hear their court details.

I don't know about older generation, but something is different about young men today. In Canada recently, 40 female freshman in 1 university was date-raped part of a hazing ritual. Very opportunist, without a care. Rape on campus, including against the smartest female students are on rise. These young women are your future leaders and getting date-raped.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8189701/weste...ault-druggings/


It's not just university, but high school, sometimes middle-school despite all the new education of sexual rights. It seems like the more you lecture boys, the worse it gets for girls. So many adult women look at boys "oh such cute innocent thing", while he secretly abuse her daughter because he feels righteous, and he's "balancing" the situation. I also have complaints to morals of young women, but that's another topic for another time.

It's one of reason I rejected offer to teacher's college.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/10/08/trevor-bauer-dodgers-assault-probe-legal-fees/

Also, Trevor Bauer seeks legal fees from accusers... A pitcher earns millions per year.. He's the "woke" millennial generation, about equality and such.. Yet this is his demand, it publicly encourages other young men to be ruthless. "He's not a simp. he's so cool, the new chuck norris"..

Have you seen young men channels on twitter and youtube regarding issues of gender. You'll hear anti-women videos and anti-women comments everywhere, ratio of 12:1 anti-women : pro-women. These are young grads and high school boys. Bloke Advice, the biggest/largest facebook group, was filled with young men making rape jokes. Since younger generation stopped using facebook and migrated to instagram or youtube, that' facebook group is inactive/quiet. It's the same story over new platforms. Whenever topics of gender comes up, gen z and millennial males are on offensive and insults.

Gabby Petito's case doesn't surprise me one bit. He felt victimized on police body-cam days before murdering her.. VIDEO CAN BE FOUND ON YOUTUBE. But the police advised them to cool-off a few days, allowing her to stay in van and him paying for motel. BIGGEST MISTAKE the cops made, gave him a message that society is always on woman's side and his subconscious seek "justice", which was killing her.

Pewdiepie, youtuber with highest subscriber count of 1 billion followers, consistently say "raspect wahman" mocking idea of Respect Women and any gender issues.. "Nice Girls" was the latest mockery..

Texas found it a safe time to ban abortions, because younger men simply don't care about women issues and state is slowly turning liberal (a push back against liberal ideas). While young men hate it because he needs to pay child-support to a girl he never planned on marrying. That's why I find it awkward when teachers and professors think a boy's in love with her, 80% of time, he wants to cum inside her and leave. It's not happening more often, it's boys reporting it more often after he's done, ruining the woman's future and career intentionally.

Tomi Lahren of Fox News, complains her experience with dating current generation in Texas (men in 30-40..) But it only gets worse with generation Z and generation Alpha https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tomi-lahren-not-one-single-081527173.html

She expects traditionalism, but current generation of men in old-country Texas isn't giving her chivalry nor protection. They already hate the idea of wife tracking his bank account and income, now chivalry is still expected in modern economical-situations. You can see rage in his eyes in public conversation while trying to laugh it off. In liberal states, Boys are becoming sugar-babies with no strings-attached except money, no guilt because they believe society will take care of her.

This message is not an attack, but to let Dommes know more realistic expectations about younger men and especially youngest men still in school. In 5-12 years, you won't even recognize the dating atmosphere. Like Nazi felt germans were victims and felt justify for any aggression, the same energy is appearing from boys regarding gender issues. Both liberal and conservative men encouraging guys to be "alpha" socially.

Are you surprised democrat Andrew Cuomo was a rapist and abuser? How about Trump not respecting women physically?

Canada's Conservative party is more liberal than GOP, Canadian Liberals are actual socialists. but Canada's leader, a liberal was accused of sexual assaults multiple times and once intentionally elbowing a woman, hard, during senate meeting (video found on youtube). All that feminist talk from him was a lie.

Plenty more stories if you search hard enough. (don't always use google, its flawed algorithm always relates your previous searches for ad-revenue and clicks. Google cares about profit, not actually finding you info)

+1

Men haven't changed one bit, they simply use another avenue. Boys haven't changed from your own childhood. Still perverted, even more so today, because access of free porn.

I graduated few years ago. High school circa 2011-15. 2016-2019 post-secondary. The male-teachers' occasionally flirtatious comments in class. The men fighting for higher-positions at school (that's why more male-principals than female-principals, more male superintendents than female superintendents despite more female-educators), they're willing to neglect their own family time, to "get ahead".. It's all social power and money.

I grew up in foster-system, every summer they were subsidized for summer camp by state funds (if they wish to attend). The staffs at one camp were soooo sick of boys being all perverted, they developed strategies to handle it. It was FemDomques without actually being Femdom. I think that's how I developed the FemDom turn-on. There were literally no male staffs, as they felt it would interfere handling strategies and/or day program. Much like Professor Mary Daly refused work with male colleagues in Boston. Fact the owner was a woman with 30 years experience, may have played the decision.

Teachers in school had zero idea the extend of boys behaviors, because barely would they socialize during personal time. At one camp, boys "flashing" female-staffs was a problem. Upon incident, a big ugly woman was assigned to escort him to further shower facility privately. Literally standing front of him showering, no curtains, watching him until he's done. She makes Rhonda Rousey look small in size and she's the "enforcer". The higher-ups in charge, would often come and go, look at him shower, make comments or discussions. It worked for most boys as he never flashes them again.

Once caught the "enforcer" doing cowgirl on a young man trice smaller, peeking under the curtains, no condom, odd because sex safe was taught everywhere. More odd, she didn't stop after he cum. Her foot locked his knees apart and her hands pushed his body down.

The shower facility was a small building away from dorms. I wanted to shower during after-hours after seeing 1 or 2 lights on. Other teens were at carnival a few towns over, I came back early after realizing it's the same old stuff. A shower a few spots over was turned on, glad they didn't hear me.

Same camp a girl first kicked me few years before, developing my ballbusting fetish.