Is Sex and FemDom Mutually Exclusive?

(Disclaimer: We all know that ProDoms do not offer sex.
I am referring to every day life encounters.)

An interesting observation that I've encountered in the fetish circles I hang with is that it is for a lot of people. Some people in the play scene want only bdsm sans sexual contact. Others like fetish play as foreplay to straight sex. I've seen couples break up over their levels of interest not lining up.


For me, I'm sans sexual when it comes to playing with someone that I'm not in a romantic relationship with. But in a relationship, I need both. A relationship with out both would get boring very quickly. But if I had to choose, it would be fetish. What about you? Could you be happy with just one or the other? If you and to choose which one would it be?

When I am in fetish mode, it is all I want. Sex would complicate it. If I could only have one or the other for the rest of my life, I'd have to leave fetish behind. It wouldn't make me happy. But, the element of companionship in a vanilla relationship is something that I wouldn't want to be without.

I believe in both. My biggest fetish is female orgasm as that is the ultimate sexual expression of pleasing a woman in my mind. I always want that as many times as possible during any encounter whether the context is vanilla sex, lifestyle play (as a Dom or a sub) or Pro/client (yes... It may not be on the paid menu but it sometimes does occur... But only when the Domme decides that is what She wants in that moment). This is literally the only thing I ever beg for from a Domme.

Although I prefer to be directly involved in my partner's orgasm, I am still thrilled by Her taking care of Herself while we play even without my direct involvement (i.e., my touching Her or even holding a toy for Her). Of course I would prefer penetrative sex with my cock, fingers, tongue, etc... But as long as my partner gets off, then I am awesome.

Having said that as the context for my reply, my preference is that sexual contact is not a hard limit when doing BDSM play and I feel everything should be on the menu based on whatever the Dominant partner feels at that moment. However, this is not a hard-core requirement and I can be happy with just fetish & BDSM play if I am being fulfilled in other ways or with what you termed as "straight sex" in a vanilla relationship (keeping in mind I don't believe in exclusive and monogamous relationships in either context so I can have either or both). However, if forced to choose then it would absolutely be fetish & BDSM play.

From the professional side of things, I'd have to say that most of my clients were very separate about their romance at home time and femdom play in session. I did have a few personal slaves that had failed marriages because they had no interest in a vanilla relationship at home, as much as they tried. It was sad to see.

When I was a practicing prodom, I kept the two entirely separate. No lines were crossed in either direction. But now that I've been long retired, their are no lines at home. BDSM and straight sex have merged into one. Early into my now three year relationship, my boyfriend said he wanted me to be more dominant in bed. (He was a very vanilla guy at the time.) I just cracked up. It was like an opening scene of a ClubDom movie. There was a temptation to show him some of movies to let him know exactly who he was asking this of. But, I decided not to scare him off. You know what they say about a putting a frog in a cold pan of water on a slow boil.

MHBHJ

(Not that I understand what you are talking about or anything)

If this question were asked 20 years ago on MF the site would have exploded. LOL!

In my experience doing sessions for decades, sure it can happen in one shape or form. My first session was with a legendary Mistress who was 50, I was 20 and she taught me how to orally pleasure her. A longtime Mistress of mine said to me more than a few times, “You should be thankful for the ‘gifts’ you receive from me.” I’ve had sessions with strict Dominas, escorts who do kink/domination, female bodybuilders and tantric practitioners who were dominant. It is always the domina’s choice, in my experience. It’s chemistry between the two of you. And it can rarely if ever, be planned. When a woman and a man are doing something intimate behind closed doors anything can happen. (If I write anymore I’ll just get in trouble!)

Junglebeast couldnt have said it better. My thoughts exactly

I like vanilla sex. I like BDSM. I'm particular with whom I do either.

Concur

Spark, Tristan and The Thomas... I agree with all of you.

Just to re-confirm, you're asking about everyday life encounters -- "lifestyle" femdom rather than for-pay.

It is interesting that you've encountered so many people that separate femdom and sex in lifestyle. For me it's been the opposite: sex and femdom are almost always intermingled in lifestyle. That does not mean that the domme doesn't have a choice as to whether there will be sex, and what type. And chastity often features in lifestyle, which means the sex will more often be him servicing her. But sexual interactions are virtually always part of lifestyle femdom IME, and also in my experience, this complete separation of the two is much more common to pro dommes and pro domme clients

I am very much in this mode. I feel femdom and sex are two intermingled things, like a tapestry. For me, pull out either thread, and the tapestry falls apart. Asking "if you had to choose one, which would it be" just doesn't compute for me; it has to be both, and I've never had to choose between them, except with pro dommes. That's the reason why, even when I'm looking for for-pay rather than lifestyle encounters, I only sometimes choose pro dommes, but more often choose femdom with FBSM providers, strippers, and in the past few years I've been enjoying exploring the sugar scene with femdom sugarbabies (this is an awesome dynamic and has attributes of both lifestyle and for-pay, and the femdom is definitely sexual)

+1

Always nice to find someone else enjoying that scene!! There's a bit of a learning curve but it can be fantastic.

I sort of fell into the scene with a girl who started sugaring had some bad experiences and then wanted to become a pro Domme. I agree lots of opportunity for a connection that makes it feel like a mix between real life and pro sessions. Its been a good fit for both of us. Fun travel, dating, and femdom

Im curious if you dont mind sharing where are you having success finding women who are interested in both the domination and the sugaring. I found myself having to sort through a lot of people who arent very serious or want one but not the other.

Your statement about "very serious" probably means I've taken a different route than you! I've found my absolute best success exactly with women who weren't very serious about femdom -- in a number of cases, brand newbies who were curious! My vetting focuses on whether they're interested and enthusiastic about trying femdom with me, not whether they're experienced (I've had some nice experiences with experienced SBs, but they're not easy to find). But I enjoy working with novices anyway, and I adore the process of exploring the femdom space and seeing which parts they embrace. Many of my SBs have said they'd never been dominant in either their personal life or sugar, were always curious about trying but all the men they've met are dominant.

So for me, what I had to learn:

1. How to be an attractive SD, and what typical SB expectations are. I'm casting a broad net and attracting all SBs, not just those who self-identify as dommes. That means I had to learn how to an SD that SBs are attracted to.

2. How to inject femdom gently into the conversation, so that I didn't scare them away. Many SBs are on high alert that the person they're talking to really just wants sex rather than a true sugar relationship, so you can't be too sex-forward (and the rest of the world looks at femdom as a form of sex).

3. How to hook them once we got past step 2 My route to success was to lead with femdom service -- SBs like being pampered, so describing a dynamic of "I'm here to serve, pamper, and obey you" tickles the right areas and opens up the conversation. Don't lead with "well you'll be fucking me in the ass and smacking my balls" ... even though it will likely eventually get there

I wrote a 2-page "how to seek femdom on SA" guide but not sure it's welcome here or anyone is interested. But it does go along my approach -- seeking novices rather than those already experienced and serious about femdom. That opens up your total addressable market to all SBs on SA!

Not for me. I like bdsm with my sex and sex with my bdsm.

Great stuff! Thank you for sharing.

Not trying ti turn the buzz into a sugar forum but Id be interested in the guide if youd like to share.

Like i say i’ve really enjoyed mixing some of the relationship aspects of SB/SD with the kink of femdom. Its opened up some things i didnt think were possible.

If someone in charge will tell me it's okay to post it here, I'd be happy to post it as a top-level "How to seek femdom on Seeking" post! I have no idea how to summon the powers that be lol

Maybe in the "Off-Topic" forum rather than the lobby since that is open to non ProDomme specific things?

Good idea... I DMed Cheyenne to get her call on whether this sort of post would be okay in either the Lobby or Off Topic

I tend to think it is okay here since it deals with the balance of femdom and straight sex in personal lives. Is anyone offended by this topic? A post that was in a close grey area was moved a week or so ago. I didn't realize what "SW" meant and did not understand the point the original poster was making. Sometimes it is a close call. I appreciate everyone's input on such matters.

Cheyenne,

Actually... That isn't what the question was about... There is no doubt this topic is fine.

Swordfish wrote a guide about Sugar Babies and FemDom. Specifically, how to properly present yourself as a Sugar Daddy, how to find the "right" kind of girls on those sites (ie, with FemDom leanings) & how to introduce them to FemDom play.

He was asking: 1) If people would be interested in reading it & 2) If it would be appropriate to share it here as a post (I responded that it seemed to fit as an off-topic post).

Right! Cheyenne, what I was asking is, okay to post my write up on how to find femdom on SA here?

Thanks. I've got to get myself familiar with the new terms in people are using today. Sugar bsbies? Hmmm.

This is not my thing so I can't explain it very well but think the female counterparts to a Sugar Daddy... Basically, young females (18 - 25 or so) put themselves on sites dedicated to this looking for older male benefactors.

Swordfish will have to explain how it actually works but I do know of some findom types who also do this (and frankly I don't see much difference between the two other than the attitudes being different... I.e., findoms are "I deserve" while Sugar Babies are "Thank you for taking care of me Daddy").

Swordfish,

Because we are not really of that culture, could I ask a favor that you spell out the slang/acronyms you are throwing around if/when you post them on this subject (at least the first time in a post)?

I've figured out "SB" (Sugar Baby) & "SD" (Sugar Daddy) but "SA" & "Seeking" threw me for a bit... I am about 80% sure these both refer to the "Seeking Arrangements" website but that actually took me a while to guess and I know I could still be wrong.

Thanks,

Asp

Miss Mary,

I know your post was about lifestyle and romantic relationships, but I just realized the easy test to answer the question I quoted above. If you couldn't indulge your fetishes or find a sexual partner, which would you be willing to pay for?

I gladly pay to be Dominated (because I can't indulge my fetishes any other way) but have never had an interest in paying to have sex even when I have gone a long time without it.

I could be wrong because I have no experience with either Findom or any aspect of sugaring but I think the difference would be findom is online relationships with no meeting up and sugaring is an actual real life real time arrangement where the SD and SB meet and do things together with a financial arrangement.

Agree. Companionship is important. It works for me because my social circles are made of up kinksters.

That is a great response and a fabulous way to feel about a partner, whether it is vanilla or kink. Kudos to you.

I see the reason to keep that entirely separate on a professional level. It is interesting that most of your clients felt the same. As far as the two merging into one at home, yeah, same with me.

Anal on the male or female? Just kidding.

Kudos. I'm choosy about who I play with too. It isn't just for the sake an the act. It is about who I'm with.

I'm asking about lifestyle because it is a safe assumption that most professionals do not cross certain lines. This is a hypothetical question. If you had to choose between two erotic lives, one being 100% FemDom with 0% sex and the other was the opposite of that, which would win out?

Me too, with right person.

This is a very complicated subject for me. I’ve never really had a desire for just normal vanilla sex although luckily I can do it. I’m hardwired for submission and am definitely a masochist. I read your post below and I see what you are asking here so if I had to choose one or the other it would be vanilla. I’ve got a great family wife and kids etc and life has been good and so as much as I crave kink in the end it’s just a small part of life and I’d do without it.

I REALLY disagree with this assessment but we are already insanely off topic of this thread so I will leave it at that. I will definitely engage if anyone wants to start a thread about findom vs sugaring in the Off-Topic section of the board though.

Like I said I have no experience with either but this is my impression of it. I’m sure there are Pro Dommes who incorporate findom into existing relationships with regular clients but when I think of findom it’s the online Dommes which is a niche in itself. But maybe there are online findom types who meet with their subs so I don’t know.

I'm with buffalo. I would strongly prefer both but if I had to choose it would be vanilla.

Although, from the Pro Domme sode of things it is really only North America where sex isn't at least somewhat easily available in a BDSM context....or at least that used to be the case in much of Europe.

In a way I think of findom (a bdsm activity that involves control of finances) and Findom (a (toxic) bdsm segment that practices findom in a particular way) to be different things. Capital F Findom vs lower case findom. I do think most "dedicated" Findoms are online, but I'm sure not all. There are certainly findom-ish activities that pro dommes do, but even though the general description might be the same -- control of finances in some aspect or other -- there's a huge difference in the way it's done and the overall context.

All of that aside, I am in very strong agreement that sugar relationships aka arrangements are live and in person relationships. There are people who call their online interactions sugar, but for the general sugar community, we consider it more a form of online content selling just under a different name. We dress up the terms, but the "sugar" refers to intimacy (sex) and financial support (money). Not phone calls and pictures. But that's a whole side argument

Yes, good point, will spell it out. Perhaps I'll throw a post up in Off Topic tonight, unless Cheyenne comes and clarifies that it's ok to do here in the Lobby

It is fine in the lobby. Sorry, I'm a bit of a dinosaur on the current terms. I'm looking forward to reading your post.

Great thanks!

I think you describe it very well. The difference between Findom and findom type activities. I’d have no interest in Findom but there’s an appeal to being coerced into tithing money to a Domme who you regularly see. I will never forget a conversation with a Domme I was seeing telling me how she was going to find a slave to clean her house and also take his money but not all of it. She was a powerful personality and confident there were men out there who would do this. I get hard just typing this remembering her confidence and matter of fact tone.

Funny... Sounds exactly like what I am doing this weekend (or maybe the next week.. just depends when She lets me go).

We probably need to define "sex' too. Is it just penetration and oral or would you include manual stimulation (IE things like a magic wand etc)?

That raises the whole issue of release vs no release in the context of pro BDSM play.....something that has been hotly debated on various forums before. I fall solidly in the "yes, release" camp but to to each their own.

If made to choose between a vanilla sexual relationship and a BDSM one that included plenty of orgasms but no "sex" as such I would be far more torn.

I'm more referring to the nature of the relationship. We all know a vanilla relationship when we are in. I'm a big supporter of to each their own. I'd just get so bored.

There are sex workers who offer both. I've hired such sex workers and found the femdom sessions with a "happy ending" to be amazing.








My wife would call me a creep and divorce me on the spot if she found out I was submissive. I fake vanilla and get all of my lights turned on by paying for sessions with prodommes and other sex workers.

This is an interesting subject. There were a few times when the wife of a client found my number somewhere and called me, certain that their husband was having an affair. I wouldn't say anything to jeopardize my client's confidentiality. My heart heart for both my client and his wife. If the wives of my clients only knew how much their husband loved them it may have changed things. Yes, they were getting their freak on somewhere else and while most of my clients were and, in some cases, still are good friends, their wives came first in absolutely ever regard. While some men were stuck in their marriage, most of them adored their wives far beyond an erotic connection.

It took a long time but eventually I found a husband who loved both and most especially me and our family. That is probably a needle in a haystack. It probably didn't hurt that he got to be on the inside circle playing with the Doms and fetish models for ClubDom. lol.

It's the same with me regarding vanilla sex. It bores me. Maybe it is shallow but I couldn't be in a relationship with someone that didn't share the need for kink. It is too much a part of my life.

It would take a lot for me to be in vanilla 24/7, even if I could sneak away to get my freak on. Most of my close friends are in the lifestyle scene. It is in my blood. I agree that men who have a bdsm orientation but stay in vanilla marriages must be very much in love with their wives. They say that Freddy Mecury was straight emotionally but sexually attracted to men. Go figure. We are all freaks one way or another.

I am coming late to this discussion, MissMary, but I think we are very much alike. Outside of the partners I am in an intimate relationship with, sex does not play a part in my BDSM play.

As a side note, I will share that once I started offering pro sessions, BDSM has played a lesser role in my intimate relationships. When you do something everyday it tends to lose its novelty and quite frankly I just don't always have the energy for it. Vanilla sex is fine with me more that it used to be.