Thou doth protest too much.

I always find it to be a turn off when prospective subs go on about how they aren't really submissive. Long explanations about how in control they are at work or how they are such in charge guys, just makes me want to hit the delete button. But . . . I try to be understanding and explain they are not unique (which I am sure many of them don't really appreciate) and that's one of the main reasons professional domination exists. It's just irritating that 1. They think I/We have never encountered anyone like them before and 2. They act ashamed of having submissive fantasies and desires.

Sometimes I feel like they are throwing down the gauntlet - "You are going to have a tough time making me submit because I am so naturally Alpha. And other times I feel they are simply confused and maybe even a little resentful about their urges and unruly thoughts. Initial sessions with this type of client can sometimes be very difficult which is why I always address their comments via email. These sessions can also be among the most satisfying but I think the initial communication before we even meet is crucial.

Question to other Dommes: How do you deal with these prospective clients? If any of you have "the magic bullet reply" that doesn't offend, but doesn't let them go into the session thinking they are so much more alpha than your other clients, I would love to hear it.

Question to subs: Do you remember being ashamed and confused by your submissive fantasies? At the time, did you think you were unique and that most guys that sought professional domination were "weak"? What would you have wanted to hear as a response to that from a prospective Domme?

To clarify, I don't mind (and even expect) the one line explanation that says. "Hey, I am usually a take charge guy in my day to day life but I have fantasies of xyz." It's when the bulk of the email is them explaining how they are so unique and that they are warning me up front that they are going to be very different from my usual client.

Mistress Ayn,
I know I'm in "the deep end of the pool" on this one but I'll admit that I've said to a Mistress and posted here or on Maxfisch that "I'm not really submissive" or words to that effect. I can see your point. It can be irritating. Maybe even topping from the bottom.

Here's what I mean when I say (or write) that. I do role play, but I'm not an all-out corporal or bondage guy. Never was. (I did do scissoring and non-competitive wrestling with some.) Many of the Dominant ladies who I've had the pleasure of meeting or serving over a period of time gave me sensual "privileges" as some of them would call it in the context of the role play. Few, if any, Mistresses would discuss such activities in a public forum or advertise it. The activities were not FS, but highly sensual.

When I have gotten comfortable with a Mistress I do get chatty - as you can see by my posts. Discussing it was an outlet for me.

Years ago when I first visited Your dungeon, I was apprehensive standing naked before You and would have never even thought about saying I was an Alpha male and expecting to top from the bottom. I didn't think of myself as "weak" or "tough" but there to experience a fantasy. I soon learned that serving You was the one thing that I needed more than anything else. It has been over 10 years since I first knelt before You and purposed to serve You to the best of my ability. Yes, I am submissive to You not because I am "weak" but because I get great pleasure by serving You. I am "tough" in that I can submit to You by pushing any "alpha" tendencies aside and concentrate only on You. Happy Valentine's Day my Mistress.

A Domme once told me that she had over the years several clients that were heavy masos who vigorously denied being the least bit submissive. I later mentioned this to another Domme who said she too had encountered the phenomenon and that they wanted to think of themselves as being Tough Guys. Taking a hard CP session validated their self image.

I am not one of those. I have repeatedly characterized myself as being 60% maso/ 40% sub. I have never had trouble admitting that. One reason for that is I am very introverted and the whole Alpha/Beta dynamic is much less important if you are introverted. I am also a switch and in my early days I had much more trouble expressing my sadistic/dominant fantasies than my msso/sub ones. I discussed that here

http://domina.ms/~domroot/thebuzz/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5979#Post5979

So few people are 100% okay with their sexuality.

It is not surprising you hear things along those lines over and over again.

Its a thing that people with a lot of responsibility like to take a break from it by being dominated. It makes sense that people who feel the need to seek that kind of power have a self image they would fight to maintain about their status.

I think there is some truth to the idea that "if it is forbidden it is more fun". Maybe some clients of prodommes wouldn't be clients is they fully accepted their desires.

I also wonder if women who get a thrill out of power exchange, get less of a thrill with men who are 100% okay with being submissive towards them. That it would be more interesting to "conquer" a man and "take" his power rather than having it willingly given.

Ashamed? No. Somewhat terrified I was in over my head? Yes. After all, I was meeting a woman who advertised her expertise in Screw magazine. She had to know all sorts of things I hadn't dreamed of.

It took me a long time to stop telling every new Domme that I was a complete novice.

By the time I met you, I'd gotten over it

Screw magazine... Wow, that takes me back to college in NYC during the '70s. That's how I met my first Mistress, the legendary Belle De Jour who opened her first dungeon, really a cross dressing place and a storefront, on W. 13th Street. She was 50 and I was 20. Looking back on it I must have acted like a eager puppy. She was seductive, exotic, controlling... and her voice dripped with sexuality in person and on the phone. We did roleplay, no dress up. I became an exhibitionist - for her. Years later one Mistress laughed at me meeting Belle as a kid and said, "Well, she did like her boys!" From then on and a few years after that I was a respectful "boy" for her and visited either her or her dungeons until the mid 1990s. All for $35 for a 45 minute session in the '70s. Must have been a college rate. LOL! Priceless.

I have religious and psychological reasons for believing it is good to be spanked, caned or whipped . . . so . . . no . . . not been ashamed . . . and my doctors and my friends at church or some of them know that I get caned or whipped or am perhaps victimized in other ways!

Nope not ashamed and the people who would think badly of me for that are fools . . .

If and when a guy writes an email about how unique or difficult he will be, I might toy with him a bit and write back. "Ha, ha."

Or tell him that telling you that does not work and he will submit or he can look elsewhere!

Many of the best or most fun dommes write it plainly on the website, "You will submit," etc.

Or, if he is serious and still wants to see you, consider gagging him for a lot of the session!

i don't see how anyone could think that femdom makes them unique. the fact that there is a commercial facility, like the atlanta dungeon, used by a fairly large number of dommes is proof enough to me that the desire to be dominated by a woman isn't unique. the market for it says otherwise. now the surreptitious and clandestine nature of femdom says that it may not be socially acceptable and dare i say even shameful but isn't that the nature of all transactions involving anything sexual in america? may we thank our puritan forebears.

as a matter of fact, i sought it because i am shameful and undeserving. or rather that is what i feel. i think that i have submissive fantasies because i am ashamed of myself. i don't see how anyone would want me other than as a slave. i suppose that is what makes arbitrary and casual rejection by dommes so painful to me. the fact that i seek professional domination because of that is not a sign of my weakness but rather of my power and courage. i was afraid of what people might say. i am so scared of rejection that i'm afraid to talk to a woman. so to me, seeing a professional domme is something that takes courage for me to admit that i have sexual needs and desire female attention. i was weak when i did nothing but jerk off at night while dreaming of being dominated by powerful women. weakness was not doing anything about it.

i don't know what this particular guy is looking for in response there, but if i say something like that, i would want to be humbled. i would never describe myself as an alpha. it is so alien to my nature that i could only say that as part of a role play. maybe he is seeking some sort of corporate fantasy where he is humbled by the alpha female in the office. You do make reference to a corporate career on your page. maybe he wants to be dabney coleman in 9 to 5. although i could never see You as the secretary. hated the secretary/boss videos because of that...

Mistress Ayn,

I almost always include information like this in early communication but that is because I feel its necessary for a Domme to understand that I am naturally a switch and its relatively easy for me to fall out of my subbiness if they push me to choose activities or verbalize during play.

I know I am unique in that I feel that directing any part of a session with answers to questions has this effect on me and, for me, therefore falls into the category of topping from the bottom (we have had this discussion many times on this board over the years). In addition, I also do not generally react well to personal denigration (mostly I just roll my eyes internally but it does kick in some Dom reaction). Therefore, that is part of the information I try to express to someone new as part of saying I am not submissive in all aspects of my life.

I have never felt ashamed and always submit willingly and immediately but I feel this pre-session communication is important so that the Domme can try to establish a good connection with me during that session.

I grappled with it for a while. But in time had come to recognize my alpha stuff as purely contextual. Submissive at the core, but with some organizational talents that look to the untrained eye like alpha-ness. And which earn a better income. "Will alpha for food" etc....

But the more control I was expected to exert in one place, the more I wanted it roughly, even violently taken away in another.

Where some might want to end a long project with a lot of high fives and a massive bar tab in a downtown restaurant, I wanted to be kidnapped, feminized and left in a cell in shackles. And I could see how the faux alpha-ness needed the counterweight of the truth of future pet's submissive soul being taken in hand by an knowing, caring nonconsensualist.

I would also argue, as someone who sees it every effing day, that a lot of "take charge" stuff is pure narcissism. Selfish, unreasonable and immature is neither dominant nor submissive. To suppose that it is is to demonstrate a lack of understanding of both dominance and submission. Plus, no one will kidnap you. Which would suck in my case.

Mistress Ayn
I suspect most men consider themselves to be take charge kind of guys. When contacting you a "prospective sub" probably has no idea what he is or what he is really looking for......
For me, I don't feel like Im a sub. I like to act like one for two hours a month.....but once my bell is rung, I go back to being that same "take charge" guy that I like to think of myself as............until next month's two hour appointment.

Call me crazy, but Im not ashamed that I really enjoy the excitement of being ordered around by a hot dominatrix or two for a couple of hours a month. I may feel a little guilty about it though.
Weak? No way. I dont feel guys who enjoy this are weak....Every guy I know would love to trade places with me for a two hour break from reality every once in a while. Most of us just don't want to admit it I think.

Your Shakesperian line in your subject reminds me that you probably are also familiar with Maslow and his hierarchy of need. Which explains how some of us guys are very ego driven and we need to explain how unique we are.....so you can treat us different than the usual suspects........maybe even let us see behind the curtain.

Perhaps these conversations blather on because they argue as you explain that are not so unique.....instead, maybe you tell them Wow, I've never heard of such a unique person, and that perhaps you could figure out a way to work with their special unique needs.
Letem eat cake.
Best Regards....... and hope to see you again some day
The Driver

Thanks to all of you for your input.

I do want to clarify that I am not referring to any specific individual but rather a type of individual that sends this kind of email. They tend to be new and have little or no experience communicating (let alone sessioning) with a pro Domme. My guess is they don't want anyone to see them as weak and they haven't done any research to find out they are exactly the kind of guy that does hire a Domme.

Now days with so much kink revolving around gender, cross dressing and sissification are more common as fantasies and I think some guys are having a difficult time dealing with it and how it reflects on their masculinity. That is possibly why this type of email seems to be on the rise.

What I personally dislike about it, is their assumption that any male who chooses to see a Domme must by nature be weak and they don't want to be confused with "one of those".

Your responses are always so well put, future pet. I am not a big fan of limiting labels but a client once explained his own situation as this: He feels that he is a high functioning beta with a job that demands alpha behavior in order to succeed. He pushes himself to do what is not necessarily comfortable or natural and then he needs a break. That's when he books a session.

For me the answer would be "no" but I can see how some may feel that way. There is a certain satisfaction when you "win" in a session but in general I don't like the fight. As an example I remember a session with a self identifying top that just wouldn't shut up. He was like a heckler that kept breaking my rhythm and head space. Gagging him just seemed like a weak thing to do so I made him hold a piece of equipment in his mouth with a very specific and unpleasant punishment if he dropped it. I felt the moment that I "won" and it completely turned the session around but overall I resented having to fight for it. We both know why he is there. Fighting seems counterproductive but some guys want to make you take it as opposed to simply submitting.

Then there was the guy that I made suck my cock because of how he treated dancers, but that's another story . . . It will be in my memories if I ever write one.

High functioning beta. Epic. My year is made and we're still in Feb.

Mistress Ayn tends to do that to us

I think those kinds of people are trying to reconcile their desires with who they believe themselves to be. Generally, I'm not bothered by this because I feel compassion for people who are just trying to understand and explore their identity.



This kind of bratty behavior is uninteresting to me. If I get that attitude when someone requests a session, I usually ignore them.



It depends on my assessment of where the person is at.

If the cognitive dissonance is expressed as condescending or hostile behavior toward me, then I pass.

If the person seems angry but more at the desires than directed at me, then I offer counsel to them. I explain that people can explore submission but still be a dominant person. I usually refer them to an article I wrote in which I discuss this. They usually feel better after that because they feel understood.

Great replies, M. Tissa. Thanks!