Dan Savage: Why Are Dominatrixes So Expensive? ProDomme Twitter Weighs In

Courtesy of Domina M on Twitter ....


Dan Savage: Why Are Dominatrixes So Expensive? ProDomme Twitter Weighs In


https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/11...itter-weighs-in

I love saving money and I'm all about words like discount, sale, coupon, clearance...but there are some things you are not willing to skimp on so to speak. For instance I would not try to get discount Lasik eye surgery. When you're talking about paying a professional to possibly completely immobilize you, intentionally inflict pain on you but not send you to the hospital, humiliate you but not in such a way you snap or need to see a therapist, or do whatever other kinky stuff you like, I personally want to find the best and pay whatever the price is. He needs to quit whining, pay up or shut up.

Gesh, I was charging $300. an hour over 15 years ago, with a two hour minimum. I'm surprised the rate hasn't come up since then. This is guy is a cry baby who has no idea what it takes to run a dungeon. Kudos to the ladies, who clearly explained to this clueless guy, why Doms charge what they do. (Frankly, they should be charging a lot more in this day and, age.)

Well put.

Okay, I'm the old guy. I'll take you down memory lane. My first session, as a college kid who worked three or so months a year and lived at home, was $35. My "job," according to my parents, was to get great marks and save my work money for "incidentals" like clothes, LPs, tickets to concerts and ballgames. The session was with the legendary Mistress Belle de Jour when she was on E. 13th Street. (I guess Belle was one of the "incidentals." LOL!)

BDSM was far, far more underground than today. I found her ad in Screw Magazine, which few knew back then. Using a number of sources via Google just now $35 back then had the buying power of about $200, a real bargain to session with a legend. That was also during a recession and the famous Oil Embargo of 1973-74 when prices for oil and gas quadrupled.

BDSM is an expensive hobby, if I may call it that. $200 today might - MIGHT - get you a half hour session. But I would question the quality of the Mistress, if you did not know her. $300 is about right if you believe the ads, maybe even $400 per hour, for a known, quality Mistress. (I'm excluding the "findom" phenomenon.) Of course, if you are a valued regular of a Domina she sometimes provide extra time, even a price reduction, if you are worthy. Just my 2 cents.

I like the sound of that! I'll draw up a memo

Quality over quantity, I should think!

Damned right.

I have a friend who does tantric massage. I don't mean to belittle her training nor her emotional labor, she is lovely and caring, however she grosses twice as much as I do cranking out the same "session" several times a day. Her overhead includes a few H&M bikinis and sandals, and some "Luxury Massage Oil."

She laughs at how little I charge.

That’s crazy but I guess that’s the market.

Yes, agreed. Her demand is much greater with a majorly larger pool of clients. Ah Well. I am really happy with my fancy dungeon and the mental challenges of preparing for all kinds of different people and psychologies. That is what makes it fun. On the other hand, if session prices lowered, I would have to weigh my options.

M

Ha! Yes, that's one way to put it! And I thought my hiking/backpacking hobby was expensive.

Also, there is price variance depending on your location. I grew up in New Jersey and the cost of living before I left was astronomical. I could never afford to live there in my career...I'd have to make more than double my salary to have the same standard of living. I would imagine a session with a Domme in NYC is much higher even than what has been mentioned here as about a standard rate.

It actually varies wildly because there is a lot more competition and attitudes/approaches. It ranges from ridiculously expensive to actually cheaper than standard.

Good for you. In general while it’s necessary to earn a certain amount of money to live decently once that is met I’d choose enjoyment of my job over money. If you are not happy at work it’s not worth it. I’d rather have a fun challenging job that pays less than a boring job I dislike that pays more.

Nice post. I see four things affecting the price now. From classical economics arguments anyway vs. 1980-1990's era.

1] Cost of sales is lower: This includes advertising, screening, and booking. The internet is responsible. More demand.

2] Everything else is more expensive: Real estate,utilities, Domme Gear, a bunch of other stuff. Fixed costs.

3] The client base (Americans) is less affluent in real dollars, with a few exceptions. Less Demand.

4] The industry is largely unregulated and competitive, which lowers prices, especially with almost unlimited choice (internet). Look at heavily regulated industries like health care (Americans) for the other extreme. Elasticity.

Great reasoning! You must be a Woman.

How did you know?

Do you want one who isn't?
Her commitment to craft, training, quality of attire, products, spaces isn't there. But you'll be fine, I'm sure...

Do you want one with sloppy security procedures?
Such a nuisance, trying to find out if you're who you say you are, if you'll really show up and so on. You've found one with no such requirements. Sure, just about anyone could come strolling through the door while you're kneeling in stockings, panties and bra. But you'll be fine, I'm sure...

Do you want one who fucks client's who think they're cute enough to "deserve" it?
Hey, you're a good-looking guy. You take care of yourself (at least in your unvalidated mental image you do...) Why shouldn't she toss a fuck in with everything else? And you finally found one who does! Sure, she's a totally unsafe player across the board. But hot, right? Hottish? You'll be fine, I'm sure. You and the 57 other guys whose microbes you now share.

Do you want one who is available the moment you get hard thinking about her?
That's how it should be right? Your dick, your money, your rules. And any dominant who doesn't submit to the big 3 just doesn't understand her place in this world. You want 'em desperate. Like you. What could go wrong? I'm sure you'll be fine.

You can really have everything you say you want. But I don't think you'll want it when you get it.

Maya had a great point, Matisse, of course, had great points.

Personally, I get mad if someone tries to negotiate the price down when I have never met them before. It is insulting, considering the costs on my end. However, my best clients have often been men who save up for a session. I am much more willing to make sacrifices when I know the other person is really committed, is fun to play with, and very much appreciates whatever deal I can offer.


xoxo


V

Nothing for me, I'm broke. I get paid way too little to do any kind of BDSM activity; maybe like once every 2-3 months.

Everybody here makes good points. But, maybe to stir the pot I would say that the guy who wrote the article has the wrong attitude but maybe a valid argument. Let us consider two mistresses making $300 an hour. Mistress A ups it to $350 and mistress B lowers it to $250. Let's say they pay $80 to the dungeon and spend one hour each way travelling and preparing for the session. At the end of 1 day with one hour session mistress A earns $250 for spending 3 hours. But if mistress B gets as a result of her more competitive rate an average session of 2 hours she gets $320 for 4 hours. The real hourly rate is the same but at the end of the day mistress B takes more money home and has more flexibility and security.

This is certainly a valid argument. However, it doesn't take into consideration a lot of things that people don't typically think about.

First thing is that I don't think folx consider that if you're paying $300 for an hour session it's really somewhere between 4 - 6 hours of work. So the $300 is really more like maybe $50-75 per hour. For the cost of everything that goes into it -- equipment, consumables, wardrobe, administrative costs -- in addition to the higher level of risk we have doing this work, this is actually a very reasonable rate.

Second, we do a lot of work that is not directly paid for. All the photos, preview clips, articles, and other erotic content, is often freely shared, and infrequently, if not rarely, are any "thank you" tributes sent to those producing it, even though people receive benefits from that work.

Third, I think if you asked a lot of serious Dommes if they felt it was worth cutting their tribute by $50/hour in hopes of gaining what would probably amount to few -- if any -- additional clients, they would probably say it wouldn't be. In fact, some people intentionally set prices as a strategy. For example, having a lower tribute is likely to attract "lower quality" clients.

Fourth, there is a cultural aspect to FemDom that makes this different than every other business: women are centralized and revered. As a result, women may place a premium on what we offer. This can bother people who are not aware of or interested in the cultural element because they tend to understand women as sex objects who "owe" them.

Yes, this!

Also lowering tribute to get a few more sessions does not make sense. We can't just "crank them out." There is massive emotional labor. It is almost impossible for me to maintain more than 12 session hours a week (that is 60 hours of work), without it having a serious impact on my emotional state. If I charge less for those 12 hours, then I simply make less.

My "supply" in this "supply/demand" curve is limited. I should actually raise my rates at this point.

YES.

I don't think our playmates really understand how much this work takes out of you.

Have you ever tried to hold an erotically charged atmosphere in which your job is to keep your play partner in rapt attention for 4 hours? How about 8? Or 24? Especially if you've never met that person before? This takes skill, intelligence, and often deep physical and emotional reserves.

The longest scene I offer is 8 hours. People who do overnights and weekends? Bless all of you.

I disagree with the discussion in these types of threads because they are always so limited (and this is why I have ignored this for so long). IMO, quality of service and rates are not actually directly connected in the Pro Domination industry.

Professional Domination as a totally unregulated industry with almost zero barriers to entry but with great barriers to full-time employment is an example of pure capitalism within a service industry. As such, rate setting is completely arbitrary and driven by the goals/needs of a particular provider (which may be completely different from other providers) who manages a limited commodity (in this case, time) rather than some spevific formula.

Each Professional takes into account Her own needs, costs and process, as well as market forces, to make that pricing decision. Here are a couple of articles that explain general economic theory on price setting that are always partially referenced in each rate justification in this type of thread:

https://www.inc.com/guides/price-your-products.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2017/11/21/how-to-price-your-service/#72697cea29a9

Examples of factors to consider thst are specific to this service industry:

Economic Conditions - Today, we have had a long period of economic growth which allows for more potential clients based on having the wherewithall for discretionary spending. Ten years ago we were in the midst of a depression which had a very limiting effect on the number of available clients and thus what rates could be charged.

Local Market Forces - If rates within an area are "X" then attempting to charge "X + 100" will bring much fewer business opportunities than charging the same "X + 100" rate in an area where that is the standard.

Location costs - Dungeon space on an hourly basid vs a hotel (fixed cost on a daily basis) vs personally-owned dungeon space vs outcall (zero location cost) all have an effect on rate setting. This is especially true in relation to how many session hours they wish to have on any given day.

Advertising - Social Media may not cost money but it definitely costs time. Producing content for Social Media and other advertising platforms can cost time and money (although these may also offer alternative revenue streams that offset the costs). Actual advertising on platforms such as Eros, Hogspy and the banner ads above cost money. Attending events/conventions costs time and money. How much advertising a Pro Domme does translates into costs but it also translates into popularity and thus business.

Type of services offered - Sessions that are based on bodily functions (such as FTT or scent play) require much more physical prep than a spanking session. Elaborate roleplay takes a great deal more preparation than body worship. Bloodplay requires much more post-session cleanup than electrical. In some cases there are up-charges for these services, but for the most part rates are based on time rather than the particulars of a session.

Equipment - Buying a set of Victor Tella whips, a Leather by Danny sleep sack and a Venus 2000 is a hell of a lot more expensive than some ropes, cuffs, a paddle and a small tens unit off of eBay/Amazon. In the end, D/s and BDSM play are not about the equipment... But, it definitely makes a huge difference in the experience of certain types of play and what some clients are therefore willing to pay for that experience. Thus the type, quality and costs associated with a Professional's kit does have an effect on rate setting.

Costuming - Eleborate latex is much more expensive, takes much more care and requires more time than lingerie from Victoria's Secret. Other than more time, the same can be said for real leather boots vs shiny "Pleasers" and Loubiton heels vs ones from DSW. Higher end costuming may, or may not, translate into more/better clients but it is a specific provider choice that plays into their costs and thus rate setting.

Personal Process - Some Dommes need an extreme amount of time to plan, communicate, costume, get in the proper headspace, clean afterwards, etc... Others basically need an hour for prep/cleanup and about 15 minutes between clients. Process determines how many sessions are even available for a Professional to do, which again, should have an effect on rate setting.

Online/distance Domination and other income streams vs real-time sessions - This discussion is purely about real-time sessions, but how much a Professional enjoys, and how successful they are at, other parts of the industry determines where they put their time and effort. This has an effect on rate setting since they must determine what is "worth their time" since a lower real-time rate may translate into less time on these other facets.

Part-time vs Full-time - Those that do Professional Domination for supplemental income feel much less economic pressure to take sessions at a lower-rate (or sessions they don't enjoy) than those who have fully committed their lives to the Profession. For this reason, Part-Time Dommes tend to be less flexible in rate setting in my experience and usually this is reelected as a higher rate.

Lifestyle Domme vs Purely Professional - Some Professionals do it solely for the money. On a personal basis they may be a switch, a submissive or even vanilla but saw an economic opportunity and entered the market. Others are truly Dominant in every part of their life and see being a Pro Domme as an opportunity to make money at something they love to do (I even have one friend who does sessions as a means to find good personal submissives rather than being frustrated by the completely lifestyle process). In my experience, Pure Professionals tend to be more flexible in rate setting (and just about everything else), but that flexibility doesn't necessarily mean they charge less rather than more.

I am sure there are lots of other factors as well but one final, and critical, aspect we should understand is the emotional factor in rate setting. Rates can be viewed as how a Professional values Herself as a Domme rather than being a purely market or cost driven thing, so that leads to wanting to charge a higher rate regardless of whether it is what it actually best for that Professional. In addition, other Professionals may bully or put emotional pressure on a Pro Domme to charge a higher rate rather than "undercutting" the market (regardless of cost or other factors). In some cases, Dommes with much lower skillsets even charge much higher rates because they want to be "high-end" or "exclusive" (this is especially true of the Findommes who step over into sessions).

Asp

I am pretty much in agreement with the rest of the board on this subject. I never bargained for a session and I would never do it. You either accept the price or vote with your feet. My mistress charges a lot less than the market would bear and my guess is that this is because 90% of her clients are regulars who have been with her for years, and she absolutely hates marketing.

In reality the price of the session is not as important as we make it seem to appear, and I mean for both sides. It matters more for occasional clients than for regulars. BDSM is a luxury, and how much I spend on it is limited by my discretionary budget, and I do not think I am an exception.

What I will spend on it depends on this budget. If I am charged less, I will have sessions more often, or longer sessions or I will find other ways to spend it on my mistress. At the end of the month the amount will be the same, but the good will more.

I realize this can be different for guys seeing multiple mistresses or for mistresses having more demand that they can accommodate.

For me the rate is important but not the first thing I look for. Many charge the same but everyone has different equipment and skills. Personally I view someone expensive if they are new and only have photos of themselves holding a whip or in lingerie. How do I know if that whip is going to hit me in the wrong area? It’s happened in the past.

Now if another dominatrix has the same rate, great skills, and a good play space then I am more comfortable sessioning with that person. They have photos of their play space and a few photos during a session. The mystery of that person has disappeared and I am more comfortable to schedule and session.

As AspX said buying high quality gear and some toys from amazon are two different animals. You will get two different experiences.

I see many being a mystery and that mystery makes me not want to session.

This is a very informed post. IMHO all it lacks is a conclusion.

I play at a different pace on 5+ hour sessions, they are a different breed. Anything 7+ includes breaks, outtings and/or other dommes stepping in to assist. Of course that takes planning. Regardless, when those happen, I can't really take other session for the week. It took a long time to realise I had to take care of myself and I wasn't being lazy not taking more sessions. It's not lazy at all not to drain myself completely and provide sub par session for my clients.

I have stopped doing any phone sessions and am rolling back all my clips and videos (though I have a huge back catalogue) except for those clients I have that specifically want to be on public display. Packing all my extra time for a few hundred bucks does everyone a disservice.

No one's exaggerating the amount of time and effort that goes into sessions, but if it really did work out like that you'd see a lot more experienced dommes charging less. Plenty of us have experimented with lower rates, following pretty much this exact logic. The results are not what you'd expect.

The truth is that a lot of clients will compare those two Mistresses and decide that Mistress A must be better if she's charging so much more and can get clients to pay it.

Also, unfortunately: a lot of the bargain-hunters are absolutely fixated on getting the most for the least, making them demanding, unpleasant, entitled clients. This is not to say that clients like this do not exist at higher price points -- but at least there they're paying enough to possibly be tolerated. Nor is this to say that lovely clients never see cheaper dommes, because they definitely do! But the bullshit-to-cash ratio does seem to get much worse as rates go down.

Sorry... I shot my load and like most guys I just rolled over and went to sleep afterwards

Asp

Yes, I agree with all of this and also:



I forget about this. There are those who see if you have lower rates you are some how vulnerable and they will try to push it down even more.

All such good points by Mistress Tissa and Domina M!

SWers face a high risk of burnout, being both such an emotional job and one with many unseen aspects we often do all by ourselves. Talking with M. Chloe, we agreed the worst part is generally the behind-the-scenes communications that happen prior to session; dealing with low-ballers and time wasters—oh, the entitlement! Rates are a simple way to maintain a level of quality clients with whom you personally feel you can handle the emotional load.

I am a big proponent of "work smarter, not harder!"

Yes, all of this. Well-put.

My impression is that the more experienced a domme is, the highest percentage of her time is spent with regulars. Secondly I also think that the price they pay depends less on the nominal price asked by the domme for new clients, which is what this post is about, then on for how long they have been regulars.

I also think that they find ways to make up for this, one of them being longer or more frequent sessions.

This is why I think that while important, the current price is more a symbol and has more impact on future earnings than on present ones.

As far as factors affecting it Aspx made a good analysis. We are at the end of a long economic boom and prices for mostly everything reflect that.