Cancellations and Deposits

While we are on the touchy subject of money, I would like to address deposits. I used to hardly ever ask for a deposit. That's because I hardly ever had anyone cancel. Then things changed. I am not sure exactly when it happened and it didn't happen overnight but I do think things are different from just a year or two ago. I really hate to ask for a deposit from a client that has never given Me an issue before, but if the trend keeps up I am going to have to.

As an example today a sub I had seen two other times in person and had numerous phone sessions canceled his two hour session for tomorrow - with no attempt to give me a reason, let alone offer to pay the cancellation fee. It's like there is no respect for our time anymore, even from the clients that profess to love us. Subs used to be ashamed to cancel. If they were sick, they apologised and asked when they could reschedule. Now they act like they can burn the bridge because there is another Domme as good as you right around the corner. Do subs really think that?

I spoke with a Domme from another town yesterday and she said that she makes EVERYONE put up at least a $100 deposit - no matter how many times she has seen them - every time. This is not a newbie Domme that doesn't book many sessions. I would guess she is just as active as I am and I have heard this before from other Dommes.

So to the ProDommes out there, are you seeing this same trend?

To the clients of ProDommes, how do you feel about being made to pay a deposit - even if you have been good?

To everyone, what do you think has changed?

I don’t think only subs behaviour has changed. I think dommes have changed too. There are now many new ways to sell, make money. Competition has increased. Maybe the special bonds are not there anymore. It’s more transactional now.

As far as deposits go, I don’t like to pay for future sessions. In fact unless rates have changed, I prefer not to discuss money. I simply pay . And if I cancel, I send some kind of gift certificate. But all this for only those who I really admire.

If you example sub did not explain or compensate, then he does not think you are special enough. And that’s bcus he mite be thinking he is not special enough to you despite seeing you multiple times.

Who would ruin a special connection over an apology and a tiny gift certificate.

Hello midlet,

Your points are valid ones. I agree that the entire industry has changed. I am not sure which came first the chicken or the egg, but I suspect Domme behavior (or at least the appearance of Domme behavior) has had a great deal of influence on subs behaviors. Platforms like Twitter, Instagram and even Fetlife not only show a more transactional side of the FemDom industry but they give the impression that Dommes are a dime a dozen. In reality, highly skilled Dommes that you can truly trust your mind and body to, do not grow on trees. Most of the profiles on those platforms are of online Dommes, FinDommes, cam girls, etc. but they give the impression that if I piss off Domme A, I can just go to Domme b,c,d or e. Many subs learn the fallacy of this the hard way when they behave like the sub I brought up yesterday. Often they come back months later wanting to be "let back in". Truth is, some subs wouldn't know what a real connection was if it bit them on the behind and I am not even sure that's what they are looking for. It's commendable that you have found Dommes that you admire, have connected with and value their time.

First off all, the sub who cancelled on you with virtually no notice, no reason and no offer to somehow make it up to you is just an ass.

His actions, and those like him, force Dommes to implement business strategies, like deposits, references etc to protect themselves from inconsiderate and insincere subs. I certainly can't fault a Domme for protecting their financial interests from timewasters and bullshit artist.

Because I understand the rationale for deposit requests, I don't have a problem paying one. Having said that, in all my years of seeing ProDommes I have only been asked for a deposit on one occasion. Perhaps it's because I tend to play with highly experienced and well known Dommes who fortunately are satisfied with the references I can provide.

Also, it is so easy to schedule a session. A few emails is all it takes. There is no real connection and both Domme and sub are really completely anonymous to each other. If there is blowback from being a no show it's simply a matter of creating a new name and email address to get right back into the game.


Deposits are just an inevitable evolution of the business, perhaps an unintended consequence of the internet age.

Sorry, dude, but seeing a professional mistress is transactional. Period. And by saying "And if I cancel, I send some kind of gift certificate. But all this for only those who I really admire." does that mean you don't mind stiffing a professional that you haven't sessioned with that was nice enough to let you not have to put down a deposit - since you say you don't put down deposits?

Hi MistressAyn

Thanks for not blasting me for what I said. You are the first person who sort of agreed with me . I am not that lucky. Of the 8-10 dommes I saw, I only admire one. She is the only one who I will never annoy. I would feel bad if she were pissed of at me. But then it’s the result of how she treated me.

I feel real connection n admiration are above money. I have nothing against deposits or high tributes as Long as it’s a memorable interaction.

M

I have been really resistant to deposits for the most part. I have my own space, and rarely share--so that I am not taking away from someone else's money if I have a no show.

For the past 20 years I have had a three point confirmation system which has served me well, but I am VERY strict about it. Don't confirm at 12? Great your appointment is canceled and I am gong to the gym or tackling the mountain of admin work (Or avoiding said admin by going on message boards ) Now if you made an appointment, did not confirm, THEN you have to make a deposit. You have lost that privilege. It is very rare someone confirms and does not show--it happens, but rarely. People I have seen before always show to their appointments with a few exceptions due to emergencies.

I do ask deposits for people who want more than the normal 2 hour session that I have not seen before--or on occasion if I am traveling. If they have a problem with that, they can book a shorter, intro session before the longer session.

I am also in a different position than dommes who have to travel, have a vanilla job, have a family, share space, or just can't be bothered with slave fuckery. (My patience amazes myself sometimes.)

No need to apologise. For me, it’s not transactional . It’s personal and I don’t look
At it as money spent for a service. Liking the lady is more important than the activity. It’s a lot easier to spend a few hundred dollars for someone you enjoy with than a service.

I can’t stop people from imposing deposits or cancellation fee. But I am not gonna see anyone who just treats it as a transaction.

As far as stiffing a pro goes, I try my best to only see who I won’t need to stiff.

I personally have zero problems with deposits.
It's money i'm going to pay either way, and I have yet to have some emergency pop up last minute that would cause me to cancel.

The only way I wouldn't be comfortable paying a deposit is if it's a domme who has zero reputation, and that's only because i'm weary of being scammed.

I‘ve never had to pay a deposit, but i do understand the importance of it in the states for 'disciplining' newbies / unknown guys.
But if i saw a domme several times before and suddenly, without any reason she asked me for a deposit - i would stop seeing her. It's not my fault if other guys let her down.
For me, the most important thing in a long term realtion is mutual trust. As i do care a lot for my mistress and never ever have let her down, this would be a deal breaker.

Pedigreed subs like you, jack, would seldom be asked for a deposit.

Provided that the Mistress is an established domme with a reliable history, I don't have a problem with making a deposit. If you can afford the typical tribute for a session, this shouldn't be a problem.

Naturally, I'd be hesitant if this deposit *wasn't* applied to the session total, but I've *never* encountered that.

Wow!

Thank you so much for the kind words. Very high praise indeed coming from someone like yourself. I hope those Southern boys know how lucky they are to be so close to you!

Everyone who sessions with me has to pay a deposit on the first session. This has always been my policy. I'm not one who likes to open myself up for timewasting.

Subsequent sessions don't require one -- unless you're asking for something which involves my buying something or coordinating elements that will cause me (or someone else) a greater loss that I cannot recoup.

I have no issue with people paying them. Though I did recently have my first person cancel it after the session. As they say: one bad apple... Makes me want to change my policy so this can't happen.

As the wise George W. Bush said:

+1

Zero problems paying a deposit.

I try to get a feel for a prodomme's personality before making an appointment and I tend to show up when I say I will be somewhere.

Paying a deposit just means I have to carry less cash.

No problems whatsoever.

I don't mind sending deposits for a session. The way I see it there are only two reasons why a sub would be hesitant to put down a deposit.

1) They are not sure they will (be able to) follow through.
2) The Domme has little to no reputation and they are concerned that they might be scammed.

When deciding to send out a session request I first ask myself if either of these are issues. If they are I pause and reevaluate.

That being said, I do appreciate when a Domme who previously asked for deposits, no longer requires them from me. It does feel good to be trusted by someone you put so much trust in.

I'm not sure it's changed. There have always been a lot of flakes.

I used to ask for deposits on a case-by-case basis, but recently implemented a strict policy of deposits for all new friends. I don't ask for deposits after the first session although I do warn subs that I will require a deposit for every session if they become flakey.

I do find clients are a bit more open to deposits than they used to be but that might just be because I've been around for a decade now.

For me it’s all about the person.

Although I complaint about about too much discussion on money, one time I was visiting and did not have cash. So I transferred 1k USD even before starting from the hotel. She is a TOP domme. I can’t even not trust her.

After the session which got extended , I went back and paid the remaining. She did not ask or remind. In fact, I went back and slept and paid 8 hrs back after waking up.

I won’t break trust over little money.

Since I originally wrote this post I have come to a conclusion:
It's not just our industry that is seeing a rise of this problem.

I have noticed that many appointment based services are requiring security or upfront payment to book. Salons, day spas, masseuses, even doctors. I asked a lady at a spa lately if the incidents of no shows/cancellation had risen and she confirmed that it had. They get a credit card from everyone regardless of whether they are a repeat customer, have a gift card or whatever. Everyone every time. It is sad we have come to that.

I was talking to a friend, and his wife's beloved dog needed an operation to save/extend it's life. The vet required payment in advance of 80% of the expected cost due to no shows on the day of the operation and difficulties getting paid.

Of course he paid. $7,000. With the rest due after the operation.

Yup - it's a societal problem.

I totally understand why pro dommes ask for deposits. That said, I'd still rather not be asked for one, just because, if I can not put that risk on myself, why would I? For many years, I had so many options for domination that I just skipped the dommes who charge deposits and went with the ones who didn't. These days, pretty much everyone charges a deposit, so I don't have that option of simply going to a no-deposit domme, so I pay it. It's not really an issue, like I said I understand the business reason, I just didn't see any reason to take that risk on if I didn't need to.

From what I can tell, most dommes, or at least the small number I've seen recently, charge a deposit for new customers but not all customers. I think this is extra-understandable, new customers are the most likely to flake.

One thing I've noted is that most dommes do not write down their deposit policy, and seem to informally administer it however. I've heard of some dommes, as long as you give them sufficient notice, will allow you to shift the appointment to a different day, one time. Others, it seems to be that if you cancel for any reason, at any time, you surrender the deposit, which isn't something I'd ever abide (but again, no hard feelings, just not something I'd do)

I'm late for just about everything EXCEPT for sessions. lol

po

Same po! Lol. I'm late for most things, except work and sessions.

I get why a deposit would be required if you've never seen a particular Domme before. Although I'm sure there are a lot of good people, I'm also sure there are a lot of flakes and crazies out there that would book a session and not show.

I am the complete opposite from you. Deposits are an inconvenience I can put up with. But for the mistresses I have a connection with, and probably Mistress Ayn would be one if we got to know each other, I would feel offended. I would still pay, but I would trust less somebody who knows me but still does not trust me. Fortunately this has not happened yet, and I do not speak only about mistresses.

On a side note, you should understand that a mistress has a lot of overhead so not showing up for a meeting without ample notice means stiffing her and more often than not even financial loss if she had to reserve the dungeon. Compensating for that is a matter of correctness and should have nothing to do with how much you like her.

I'm a confirmed Twitter hater! I lay almost all the negative changes in professional Domination at it's door. I'm in complete agreement with Mistress Ayn. Social media and the 6000000000000000000000 artificial Dommes that thrive on it, have created a false reality. High quality professional Domination is practiced by a relatively small group of Mistresses. If you are aiding and abetting these flim-flam harlots by sending them money, shame on you! Spend your money with a real Dominatrix who is spending money for equipment, continuing education, and Dungeon rent!

I would like to see the Buzz offer a Forum dedicated to exposing false social media Dommes!

I wonder if the issue is "people are becoming more flakey" or "it's much easier to send money electronically now, and businesses are increasingly taking advantage of their new ability to prevent flakes."

I suspect it's more the latter than the former, but I could be wrong about that.

I used to never mind paying deposits but lately I am more reserved and hesitant.

In the last year I have had two cancel. These were both experienced, legitimate, and have been in the community for years. I may session 2-3 times in a year so I take my sessions very seriously. From shaving myself to doing some self pegging training. This is a lot of prep time. For them it might be easier to reschedule but for me it’s more challenging based on my work and family.

In these situations I would prefer to have my money returned but from experience it is a hassle to do. I understand life happens but there should be some sort of compromise that is laid out when the other side cancels.

That's unfortunate to hear. It is important for Pros to understand that carving out time for a session can be difficult for a client and that the amping up mentally for a session is part of the appeal but it becomes a real let down if the session doesn't happen.

There are varying degrees of professionalism in every industry but it's disappointing to hear that these were established Dommes with good reputations. Are you saying that you did not get the deposit returned either?

Personally I can count the number of times I have canceled on one hand. If the person was local I would offer to add time to the session or reduce the tribute if he could reschedule. If the person was traveling I would try to refer him to another Domme. That is just the "right" thing to do. I don't think I have ever had to return a deposit but would not hesitate to do so. In fact, they wouldn't even have to ask.

For one I asked multiple times. They were in another state so I wanted the deposit returned as who knows when I will return. After many “undeliverable texts” I said to keep the deposit in the hopes I return one day. We both agreed to that along with other things. To think about it that was about 2 years ago.

The other is dealing with a family emergency so is continuously traveling between states. I rescheduled but ended up canceling as I realized I wouldn’t have the time to prepare. Still trying to find an ideal time to session but it’s tough as I try to prepare over a few week period.

Since I don’t session often due to a few reasons I take my session time very seriously. I try to avoid the temptation of scheduling a session unless I’m sure I’m ready and comfortable to do so.

87pegged, may I suggest that you negotiate this before you commit to the session?

Let the Domme know what you have to do in order to just get to the session. It may help her plan or make decisions differently.

Also, ask her if a refund on a deposit is an option if she needs to cancel ahead of time. The Domme may be able to accommodate your request.

I think most pros will work with you. Just be polite about it, is all.

This is true. I think clients need to communicate this kind of thing to us, just like we communicate to them what we need to do to prepare for them. Otherwise, I don't assume clients are going through any tedious process to prepare. Most probably don't. But if I do know, it will help me understand the client's personal circumstances better.



That's amazing that in (how many?) years of being a pro that you've only had to cancel 5 times or less.

I think it helpful for some clients to know that when a Domme has to cancel it might not be her being unprofessional but that she has a health condition or some other emergency has happened. I don't cancel often, but I have had to because of an emergency. Like you, Mistress Ayn, I offer extra time on the session as my apology.[/quote]

This is a very good point. For the most part I assume the excitement starts the moment the session is booked but I don't think of prep starting until a day or two prior - maybe waxing, mani/pedi, enema, etc. When pegged said he prepared over a two week period it was a bit of a shock. I can see how he finds cancellations devastating. If someone communicated that to me I would definitely do everything within my power to make sure he had his session and I am sure you would too - or most any other Domme - if it was properly communicated.

On the other hand if a Domme has issues like a chronic illness, is caring for a family member or has any other issue that causes her schedule to be erratic, I think she has a duty to tell her clients. She doesn't have to go into details but if clients have a high probability of having to reschedule, they need to know. Some Dommes are part of the industry because they can set their own schedule and work around health and family issues. If it's done professionally, great. If they come across as flakes that is bad for all of us. And this nonsense of "I'm a Domme. I will do whatever the hell I want." is just BS. Do that in the lifestyle but don't call yourself a pro. I don't know if you agree with me on that one, but I had a mini-rant going there. Sorry ;-)



Agreed. Not every cancelation is due to flakiness or because we have something we would rather do. In the rare event I have had to cancel it was because I was sick and thought I was contagious and once due to a death in the family. I shared this with the client. If a client is just told we have to cancel and we don't give a reason, their imagination might fill in the blanks in an unfavorable way.

Early in my career I missed an appointment with a newbie due to a communication error. He thought I had flaked on him. I thought he had flaked on me. When we discussed it he told me all of the emotional upheaval he went through from getting the courage to set the appointment to begin with to thinking I had decided not to see him. I felt so bad for him and have always had that in the back of my mind.

Up until a year ago I suffered from terrible migraines. It would be easy just to cancel, but I would pop a Relpax and go do the session. As a side note, oddly enough often the session would cure the migraine. Just thought I would share that.

Thanks Ayn. When I go a long time between sessions (currently a year) I need to spend a few weeks getting ready. From increasing dildo sizes to practicing breathing techniques, it takes time to mentally and physically prepare. For me there is a big letdown when it gets canceled.

Lately I have been leaning driving + 2 hours to session to avoid all these recent disappointments. At least my session requests will be simpler than writing a session autobiography to someone new. Plus I find when a new Domme reads my negative experiences she gets the impression I will be difficult to please.

there is huge emotional investment in even contacting a domme for me. i am not very experienced (6 or 7 sessions. most with one particular domme) and it is really hard for me to get up the courage to even contact a domme for the first time. i feel crushed when the domme doesn't respond. or even worse they respond and give ambiguous answers. such as saying i'm interested in seeing you but never confirming the date. or waiting a month to respond. i want to send a deposit. i want to treat you the same as any professional, but if i'm being rejected, just reject me! don't leave me hanging saying your going to check your calendar then i never hear from you. do i follow up? maybe they forgot? how soon do i send a follow up email? how may times do i send an email? once? twice? i request appointments weeks or months out. how long do i wait before looking elsewhere? if someone waits to respond for weeks or months, am is still obligated to honor that request?

speaking for myself, there is a huge emotional and time investment before i even reach out. two of the last four dommes that i've contacted have done that to me and it has crushed me to the point that i'm afraid to even ask someone for a session right now. maybe there are well adjusted subs out there, but i'm not one of them.

i think that is why i appreciated the dommes who responded professionally. they replied quickly and clearly. i always knew were i stood and i deeply appreciate them and their professionalism. the flip side where the other two left me hanging was much harder to deal with. most of the session that i've had were with a domme who has jerked me around for the last year. even though our relationship is professional, i am emotionally invested the same way that people are emotionally invested with my doctors or therapists. if you have a life event that takes you out of service, i understand. you don't have to tell me all the details but, if you want to be professional, you have to communicate and offer something. your not taking new clients, you have a serious illness and you won't be able to see me but you are sending your clients to this colleague etc. that is what i would expect from a professional.

I see this s your first post and reading that I feel bad for you because you seem very sincere and I don’t think it should be that difficult to find a Domme and book a session. I’d like to offer some advice but I have a lot of questions and I’m not sure where to start so I’ll just make a few comments.

The thing that jumps out at me is It’s possible you are having problems because you are trying to book so far in advance. I don’t know exactly how your correspondence goes and your location or circumstance but that may be part of the problem. I’m sure there are a lot of very reputable Dommes out there who would be happy to see you. For example you replied to Mistress Ayn so I would suggest contacting her if you are near Atlanta ( which I’m guessing you are not). If you don’t mind sharing your general location I’m sure people here could make some specific recommendations.

You are relatively new to sessioning and I can understand if you are reluctant to send a deposit so far in advance so maybe wait until a few weeks out and send a request with a specific date to an experienced Domme with a good reputation and be willing to pay a deposit if asked. I’ve been doing sessions for a long time and have rarely had the Domme cancel on me.

Although i'm seeing my mistress for some years in a row, setting up a date is still a PITA... But i think this is just a game, showing me how desperate i am seeing her as she kind of ignores my request for some time and i have to ask again at least twice...

I have the impression new customers tend to be ignored, if the requested session is too far away in the future. When a connection is established, things go smooth. For example i saw a mistress once - and one year later i had suddenly the opportunity to visit her again as i saw her in the agenda. I mailed her in the morning by using an email reply of her from an one year old thanky-you mail to her. So she knew i was real - and she drove > 200 miles to the dungeon in order to torture me in the evening, as i learned in following messages this day.

If i don't get a reply, i write a follow up after 2-3 days. As i respect her weekends or hollidays, i avoid writing messages on saturdays, sundays or times i know she has some days off. E.g. i ask on thursday, follow up on tuseday ... and give a (last) try on friday. Than, i'll check other options

I've been doing this long enough to know times have changed and that deposits are now necessary for Mistresses due to the many flakes out there. Personally, unless the Mistress is well-known or I have seen her before, those are the only cases I would give a deposit.

But I have also gone all in on deposits. It was with two Mistresses I knew very, very well for several years. One who was located across the country and the other was local. In both cases I was given their business checking account number to make deposits. I was instructed to immediately text to inform the Mistress the deposit was made. It was convenient for the Mistress as well as a training tool... and it became a kinky turn-on for me to make a deposit in the middle of a workday and get a seductive text in return.

Hello broom,

Unfortunately this is an industry that has a low bar of entry. There are no education requirements, no certification and usually no boss to make sure you punch the clock or maintain a standard. That is part of the appeal to many Dommes. For the sub that means you have to do more homework and bear a greater burden of selection, communication, etc.

That doesn't mean that a lack of professionalism should be tolerated. Unless you are an emotional masochist, move on and find someone that respects your time and your feelings. If a Domme is routinely ignoring emails, not returning calls, cancels repeatedly, then she is not treating you or her craft professionally. If you were treated that way by your doctor, lawyer or personal trainer, would you tolerate it? If you weren't paying for the session and we were talking about lifestyle play, that is a different animal, but once it becomes transactional a certain level of professionalism and courtesy should be expected.



I would say that is a bad sign if you are emailing. She should have her calendar in front of her. Advice - move on.



To answer your specific questions, I can only answer for myself but I would guess most serious pros would give similar answers. If you haven't gotten a reply from an email within 48 hours, write again and follow that up with an alternate communication - phone, text, social media, etc. There have been a few rare circumstances where a specific person's email didn't go through. (eg - There was a time if you had a verizon.net email account, your emails didn't reach me.) If you don't get a reply from all of that - move on. Don't take it personally - just assume she is not behaving professionally and that you probably missed a bullet.

I don't mind setting appointments weeks or even a couple of months out - but I also know my schedule pretty far out. That is not the case with Dommes that travel a good bit or do this part time. My suggestion would be to reach out 3-6 weeks prior to your visit and be willing to go ahead and put up a deposit. Again, if you don't hear back move on. If she emails you back days or weeks later - either ignore it like she did you - or politely tell her you have already booked with another Mistress. That is up to you, but you have no obligation to book.

Please note that different Dommes have different modes of communication that they prefer. I prefer email, do not text, do not answer my phone unless I know you and do return voicemails - promptly. (All of this is outlined on my website.) For me, promptly means the same day. I usually check and answer emails multiple times a day. The only exceptions are if I am in an extended event or it's the weekend. When I go on vacation, I set up an auto responder.

I hope this helps, and like buffalo said, it's pretty easy to spot the Ladies that are truly professional and at the top of their game. Choose one of them and you will less likely be disappointed.

thank you to all of the people posting above. i appreciate your willingness to share your experience.

fwiw, i am in the atlanta area. i reckon my first post sounds pretty negative and overlooks the positive experience i had with two dommes. i did get to session with a great domme who treated me exactly as you describe a professional. i also attempted to book with another domme who treated me in a very professional manner, although i wasn't able to book with her, i have nothing but praise for her professionalism as well. i was pretty negative because of a few dommes giving me a run around. i'll try to balance things out with a positive review of my session.

Wow. You are in Atlanta? There is enough competition here that you shouldn't have to put up with lackluster sessions or a lack of professionalism. If I am not your cup of tea there and several others that I know would treat you well and give you a stellar session. Just do your homework. Let us know how it goes.

Thank you for writing this post!!

I’m in a similar situation except I have already paid my deposit. Just looking to reschedule except there are very long periods of non replies. . It’s difficult to lose the deposit and move on. At the same time it’s all about being professional in the situation and having to move on.