More Max Madness

This post and the following response are the reason the hang should no longer exist!


Please stop doing this
turdburglar Online content
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Registered: 06/01/17
Posts: 1
This is a review page. Stop posting titles for dommes that seem like they are going to be a review, but are simply you asking if anyone has seen that person. Do a search online and see if you find some reviews. If not, take one for the team. Look at their website. If they don't have one, be cautious, they're probably not very professional.

Things to look for..... does their site seem cookie-cutter? Are their rates below or above average? How are their photos?

Use some due diligence in your analysis of if you should see them or not, but stop these questions that appear like they're going to be a review.

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#1721203 - 01/13/19 01:21 PM Re: Please stop doing this [Re: turdburglar]
Ryder Online content
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Registered: 10/22/18
Posts: 2
Fuck you asshole. Learn the English language. You sound like inbred, toothless, trailer trash who likes it up the ass.

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Well, we have a fight here between two new posters, but the original poster is correct. I've felt like saying that myself several times. The Review sections is for posting reviews. Questions following up a review are certainly welcome (within reason, of course), but the place to ask if anyone's seen a particular mistress or has a recommendation is the Lobby.

It's the same here, and many people have one asshole cheek in each of the two forums.

Soon the whole "max" site and it's mystery owner will go down forever and ever! When it does I'll dance a Jig!

Don't sell your dancing shoes on eBay just yet. Predictions of the Max Fisch forum going away real soon have been around for years, but like cockroaches, it just never seems to disappear.

Hell... Predictions of the Max Fisch forum going away is why this board exists in the first place.

2019 is the year the URL must be renewed. If the absentee owner is truly not interested in the management or ownership of "max"
this will finally be the end!

This is why I don't care to use Max anymore. No moderators means anyone can say anything without repercussion. It's just not the kind of environment that I enjoy.

I wish more people would use this board.

We all agree with that sentiment

Great reply, Ryder. We need more of people like you on this forum. Keep up the good work on the Hang.

"petrified pete", trolls aren't welcome on The Buzz. I suggest you consider your participation a little more carefully. If you find you simply cannot control yourself, one of us Mods will be happy to assist you.

From max the hang this morning.

UBB Message
We encountered a problem. The reason reported was

Database error only visible to forum administrators

Please click back to return to the previous page.

Its happened several times before. The site slows down for a few days, stops for a few days, some web guy somewhere finally gets around to it, the site goes back up at normal speed.

Max the hang is only useful to the people who troll it. There is NO profit (can't buy advertisement) involved in it anymore. The absentee owners let it go to the dogs years ago.

I don't believe it's gonna make a comeback this time. It isn't working at all now. I'm thinking there's no one out there to deal with the mess and the owners don't care!

Honestly this site is highly preferable to Max in my opinion, even if Max were working well. Let's build up this site where there is a moderator who can remove nasty trolls on the rare occasion that is needed. Fingers crossed.

jacky b, I think you (and many others posting here) have been on MF longer than I have (2010 for Me I think). What is the resistance to moving here all about? I saw someone suggest migrating to a completely new forum that isn't even set up yet. Why when this is here and moderated? To My knowledge this site hasn't gone down in quite some time so that isn't an excuse anymore.

I too have noticed some reluctance on the part of MFers to consider this very worthy alternative. I don't understand the resistance. It's like some kind of sentimental attachment to the glory days of that forum. But the fact is that it has been sort of limping along ever since the moderators disappeared. I do wish more MF kinksters would make the switch and regroup here.

Change is hard. I just registered here yesterday and so far it's been great. I certainly hope others from MF will continue to follow. Critical mass is so important for these boards.

From a technical point of view this board is great. OMG the page loads are lightning fast. I didn't realize exactly how slow MF was (even before the current problems) before I came here.

Kudos to the owner and admins.

For the long-timers on Max, change is hard. We (or at least me) develop a routine on the forum. We know what we're looking for, and who, and we know what to ignore. Admittedly, this isn't particularly conducive to occasional users.

Forum moderators are good for heading off flame wars, though the best defense against real trolls is simply to ignore them. However, that's really hard to do because everybody wants to be a moderator at their convenience and that keeps the trolls well fed.

What Max needs isn't moderation, since that doesn't really do a lot of good. It needs administration - someone who will take care of technical problems promptly. It seems that this is something that Domina Ms is trying to keep up with, and that's a good thing.

It's hard to understand what Max Fisch is these days. It's, for sure, a place for a few dozen hard core forum members to hang out, but if it's actually a business any more, it isn't a very good one. With the difficulties in registering new members plus the difficulty in obtaining commercial advertising, what's in it for the owners?

If an owner could be identified, perhaps Domina Ms could make an offer they can't refuse - a bulk buyout of the entire data base with everyone registered on Max Fisch would, overnight, magically, become a registered user here, with the only change being a new bookmark to add to the user's web browser.

I can only wish.

I have been a long time member of Max Fisch and have found the Hang to be very useful, despite its controversies, which I basically have ignored. Since this forum essentially provides the same thing (with the added benefit of moderation) and since, unlike the Hang,. it seems to work seamlessly, I too don't understand why people don't just miugrate over. The latest glitch at the Hang, which now works at dial*up speed, has lasted form over a week now, with no sign of remedy. I think the proprietors of this site need to make a continued and consistent barrage of posts all over the Hang to further inform users of the easy transition. Once this gets critical mass, it should be ideal

It isn't resistance to this forum, it is resistance to any forum other than The Hang.

Internet forums are kind of like bars. People go with what they are used to ( people have years/decades of memories at The Hang ) and it is very difficult to attract a crowd and even more so to set an atmosphere for a new forum. It happens organically.

I think The Hang has to completely die and stay dead for people to migrate en masse to a new forum.

In its current form,. and how it is (not) working, death may well be near.

Meh.

I've seen this cycle many times before. Whenever whoever is out of town from the host gets back the site will run well again. The Hang will go on. The only downside is that a bunch of people will drop The Buzz to go back to it, and The Buzz deserves a bit better being better maintained.

Load times for a page are over 20s and The Hang is still getting new posts and responses. I'm not sure whether to admire the loyalty, or shake my head at what kind of person would put up with that and keep posting?

I couldn't have said it any better, Swordfish!

I've been on and off Max since 1998 or '99 as I've posted before. Coming here, with the new graphics and the fact that this place is being run as a business and is operating, makes me feel like it is home. I wish our old friends would just come over. Technically, being on Max now is like using MS-DOS software from '98 OR '99. It's over. The thoughts, ideas and insights of most of our Maxfisch friends are as current as ever. They need to c'mon over.

Not completely on topic -- but i believe the DNS for Max expires in about a month. Be interesting to see if it's renewed.

If Maxfisch goes down will there be anyway to archive it?
I'm constantly using google to find older posts on there that answer BDSM related questions I have, would be a shame for all the history of posts on maxfisch to be lost.

I think Soapy is right. I am member number 39 at the Hang and enjoyed it a lot over those years. Sorry to see it die a slow death—rather it were a quick one. I registered here a while ago but hadn’t visited much. I will try to do so more. It helps that it looks like the Hang. I find the familiar comfortable.

Try the "way back machine" for 20 years of maxfisch history.
The internet is not forgotten.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/maxfisch.com

Try any website

archive.org

I currently keep feet on both sides of the fence, and on fet and other places.
Of course, I do like that the Buzz has gone so far(t) as to have a forum for the Fetish that Shall Not Be Named.

Earns Kudos and a special place in my heart!

po

There was a time when Max Fisch was king of the internet bdsm connection scene.

The King is dead. Perhaps, not yet buried, but surely soon to be buried and then forgotten.

As a serious sub, who traveled from coast to coast on business, I was once a frequent user of MF to find new and attentive Dommes. The people who operated that site let it die from inattention.

I am conservative. There are a lot of reasons I would be very sorry to see MF gone. It has decades of sometimes very good content. There are hundred of users who take long breaks, come back after a while and won't know where to go. I won't be able to see any post of Loucabrazzi again.

I consider this moderation business a mixed blessing. The state of benign neglect at MF meant maximum freedom for the adult community we are supposed to be. Everybody can see the advantage of not having empty posts and having technical improvements.

Personally I do not enjoy a supposed grown up having to approve of what I want to say. It is like moving from a cable channel to a network channel. We have not to offend the big advertisers, in this case the mistresses or domination houses.

What if you don't approve of a present or future policy of a domination house? What if you consider that a mistress was unprofessional?

Basically moving from an unmoderated to a moderated environment means trading freedom for safety. This is a trade off I see too often nowadays and an excuse used by those who take away our freedoms.

I know I am in the minority. Most people value their convenience more than their freedom. This is why Facebook does so well.

First and foremost, the Buzz is a board dedicated to Female Domination.

The Buzz Moderators Do Not approve posts before they become public, no one does. The Buzz is in favor of unmoderated free speech unless it becomes abusive, disparaging, or libelous.

We at the Buzz realize the potential for a discussion/review board with no Moderation to damage the reputation of a Professional Dominatrix or domination house.

Unfortunately this happened on the unmoderated "after max" version of the Hang on numerous occasions. Several members left the board due to a basic lack of courtesy and esprit de corps.

In the case of suspicious negative reviews, we make every effort to hear both sides of the story. The original "Max Fisch" handled reviews of a disputed or dubious, nature in much the same fashion.

Thank you

G.

Domina.ms Admin

What you are saying is reasonable. In what regards me I joined MF in the period you call the after MAX I guess. I have been there for years, posted hundred of posts and read thousands.

I was occasionally under attack myself, and had to defend myself. I never attacked anybody personally, but I often disagree with many views, and sometimes I express it.

While a few people might have been offended and left MF, there were hundreds, probably thousands who stayed on, whether it was moderated or not. Reading some of the archived posts, to me it looks like some of the old days discussions, when presumably it was moderated were more contentious than anything I witnessed myself.

There is a safety in numbers aspect. When there are so many readers even when you express a view which is not in the mainstream some people will agree or be interested in it.

I have to admit that I have some reservations about joining this group. For me FemDom is a subject, really a subject of great interest but not a cult. It can be a cult too, but I don't belong to it.

I think that people who are here, especially those exposed to MF before are aware how large a community can be, and what a wide array on views on lots of multiple subjects can exist.

I am interested to discuss on a lot of topics and give my honest views on them, and this is something to be done in a civil manner and with respect to any counter party.

But for me a discussion is just that, an argument carries equal weight regardless of who makes it, what I am doing is a discussion not a dedication, I am not ready to sit on my knees when I write to a mistress, nor to capitalize pronouns when referring to her.

As a matter of fact for me mistress is like information, a word which does not have plural, but that is a discussion for another day.

I am aware that in any large group there are majorities and minorities, and people like to belong to groups, and have group identities.

But if this place has two categories of citizens, mistresses and submissives, and this group identity permeates all exchanges then for me it cannot be a replacement for MF and I don't belong here.

I have been on this site soon after it started and unlike some who soon grew bored and left stuck with it. My attitude is very similar to yours and I am not reluctant to express my opinions but haven't encountered any real problems. So I encourage you to stay.

Hello Komodo,

I am one of the few people still around who started posting at Max Fisch almost from the beginning.

In its hey day it was moderated.

The best thing about The Hang, what drove it for everyone, were the dominatrixes who visited there.

When the site changed hands, the site was not a concern for the owners. I think they allowed it to stay up out of respect for that fact that a community formed there.

Moderation slowed down and then ended.

The women felt disrespected and with no recourse to do anything about it. They started leaving and the site became the shadow of what it was once was.

We are extremely fortunate for the kindness of the owners of The Buzz who have given us a similar place to go to. A moderated one, like The Hang was back in its hey day.

I've talked with a number of women who left The Hang, and other web boards. Lack of moderation, lack of recourse for their concerns was the first thing they listed as what drove them away and what they would want if they ever decided to start posting on a web board again.

I even saw a prodomme on Twitter, still angry, more than 15 years later about getting rubbished on The Hang with nobody helping her. After all that time she was still sneering about how she felt mistreated......and ignored.

If more women come to The Buzz it will be because they trust the environment and that means moderation.

I've been using the Internet since before there were GUI operating systems. Outside of a few situations with unbalanced individuals I have never had a problem with politely expressing facts and opinions.

It seems to me that while the comparisons with Max Fisch are interesting they're not really relevant, because the owners of that site aren't maintaining it.

Whatever anyone thinks of the moderation policies here, this site isn't broken, so it wins.

Thank you very much, Thomas. This was kind.

Hi Soapy,

As a matter of act what I am doing now is due diligence before answering your post on MF. I probably did not start on MF before 2013, although I read some of the older posts.

I am surprised at what happened 15 years ago, especially that the community did not stand up when a mistress was attacked. Maybe things were different then. This may be the reason why about 75% of the content is produced by man nowadays, although I think that interest and free time have more to do with it.

Komodo, I have no idea why you are bothered by a moderated environment. It seems you're equating "moderated" with "fascist".

With all due respect, I have a strong feeling that you've never been in the position that millions -- sorry, billions -- of women have been in sometimes in our lives: harassed, defamed, stalked, or worse. Allowing this to go unchecked -- at it does SO OFTEN in our world -- is not something that makes women feel very good. And when it continues, it will drive the most self-respecting of us away. Like it did with me on Max.

We live in a patriarchal society. Men seem to think they rule this place and that they should have the say in all things. Is this an underlying issue for you?

Professional BDSM is driven almost exclusively by women. In other words: much less of you would have a place to go and express your kinks without us. And yet you are balking about our wanting a space that might be appropriately concerned with the needs of the women who are responsible for it?

Let me ask you, Komodo, are you bothered by a moderated environment because you are afraid you will behave in a way that will need moderation?

No question about that. I think that being ready and quick on its feet already paid dividends. Probably traffic is already double this month compared to a few months ago.

The way I see things is the value of MF is not in its technology, but in its content legacy, and its community.

There were two attempts to save the community, both viable, this site and lady Cheyenne's Domspeak. This site gets more traffic so it will probably keep the torch.

There are some attempts to save the content from MF, but the chances are not too good.

In my opinion there is a way to keep 80% of the MF community instead of 20%. If the MF domain or url will not be renewed they will become available for a nominal price. If you buy the url you get the whole community, whenever they try to login next time, not only those who moved already.

Unfortunately the legacy would still be gone.

I don't believe in male supremacy, female supremacy, white supremacy or any other kind of supremacy. You are right, I see supremacy as some kind of fascism.

I was attacked on MF too, but it was at least a level playing field. Most of the time people are reasonable when you are. And even when many flamed me, I got support from a few, and this was enough.

I think that you and me are both reasonable people, and if we have to we can get along in a moderated or unmoderated environment. But we are also completely incompatible and very often we would be on the opposite side of most arguments.

To tell you the truth I would be stressed out if I knew that you are the moderator. I could live with it but I would not be comfortable.

This is not necessarily true for mistress moderators in general. A counter example would be Domina M with whom I think I am compatible and I doubt I would ever have a reason for tension with.

As far as the general argument the BDSM microcosm is definetely not patriarchal, quite the contrary. At least 80% of the participants, men and women believe in female supremacy, or at least pretend to.

In reality BDSM is so vast that there is place for everybody. Btw what kind of statement is that BDSM is illegal in NJ? I don't doubt your example is correct, but what about bondage, or shoe fetish, or women or mixed wrestling, or role playing, do you mean all of these activities are illegal?

I guess you are as tired to read my posts as I am to write them, but I had to update you on this.

It might be a fluke but MF is back to normal speed. Not quite as fast as here but s fast as it was.

Where did anyone say this is a female supremacy forum? Unless you think that there is an expectation to treat women with respect as equating female supremacy which I guess would mean male oppression. (You wouldn't be the first...)



See my green name? Guess what that means?

If you're stressed with me as a moderator then chances are good the stress is about you and your behavior and has nothing to do with me. I don't think I was asked to be a mod because the owner didn't have an idea that I would be helpful to this forum.

Komodo, do you understand the purpose of moderation? Or are you reactionary because you harbor ugly ideas, such as sexism, that you believe you should be able to express in a forum, no matter who they might make feel uncomfortable and unwelcome?

It seems you assume that because I, or someone else, might disagree with someone's opinion, we'd moderate it out. That's censorship. I'm not here to censor. However, I, and hopefully the other mods, are here to keep people from feeling harassed and the like. Something like sexism (or racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) isn't mere "opinion", it's a form of abuse. "Opinion" is that you prefer to eat soft shit versus hard.



80%? Nah. You're talking about something else. Probably men fetishizing wanting Dominant women.

For those who explicitly state they believe in female supremacy, it usually checks out as make believe. Men fetishize the idea of women being better than they are because it makes their dick hard.

Wow -- that's weird.

I suspect that all they had to do was reboot the server, but I don't know.

Thanks for letting us know.

I'm sure it had nothing to due with the absentee Swiss owners and everything to do with Godaddy.

I think that I am showing you more respect than you are showing me. I do not see any plus from continuing this conversation between us so let's drop it.

Some women, including myself, say they would feel more comfortable and safe in a moderated environment and you're nay-saying it and acting like you're being oppressed.

I don't understand where this is coming from so I asked you because I wanted to understand your position. You didn't answer but said you felt I wasn't being respectful of you. I'm sorry that you feel I wasn't being respectful. Perhaps you didn't like my direct questions?

Please consider that your stance is disrespectful to the women who say they have felt unwelcome and unsafe without moderation. I don't know why it bothers you. I personally would never disparage someone's desire to feel safe.

I think we all would just like a civil place to talk to each other about our shared kinky interests without feeling like no one is here to keep order if anyone gets out of hand. I hope you feel the same.

I will do one more iteration against my better judgment, but I will not continue afterwards, because while I believe that while most of the time arguments can produce light there are also times when they are more likely to produce just heat, and ours belongs in the later category.

My reaction is based on all our previous discussions, here and at MF. We have a very different outlook on life and people. Probably you consider me naive while I consider you cynical.

I tend to be optimistic and to trust people, I hope for the best and value freedom. I found you to be suspicious, especially of men, like you are of me right now. There is always a trade off between freedom and safety, I will always choose freedom while you will choose safety. This is one of the reasons we are incompatible.

I think you are a very gifted mistress, and if I had a friend visiting Philadelphia I would recommend you to him.

However having done a few round of debates with you on various subjects you are not my favorite debating buddy and what we are doing in a forum is not work, it is supposed to be fun. Our personalities clash, I do not have to defend or explain myself to you, and from now on I am not going to do it.

This is not a matter of disrespect, because even when I disagree with you your arguments are coherent and deserve respect. But I am sorry to say that, talking to you is not something I enjoy.

Komodo, you need to get together with Mistress Tissa and resolved any issues that you both have about each other as I believe handling this in person face to face is the best way to end any bad karma you have of her. You might be surprised in a good way as hiding behind the computer is totally different than in real life. I've had issues with a few Mistresses in the past,same as you but when I finally got to met up with them in person, what a great experience it was, they weren't what I thought they were, they were warm heart and friendly, we got along famously since that day. Try it yourself, you won't be disappointed.

I'm long retired from the scene since 2013 due to age and health issues.

I understand where you are coming from. In my day to day life I am the peace maker in my family and between my friends. But mistress Tissa brings out the worst in me, I don't like myself when I talk to her, so I can very well understand that she doesn't either.

Some things are better left alone.

Thank you for taking the time to write this soapy. It is spot on.

I would like to add a little something to this topic and thought your thread would be the best place - so at this point I am speaking to the group, not just you soaps ;-)

I am a big believer in free speech too - until it become libelous and potentially career damaging. One point that I think has been skipped over is the impact an unmoderated forum can have on a Dommes livelihood. I've read subs say that they were attached on MF but "got over it". I can imagine they would. With few exceptions, no one knows who they are. Being flamed won't damage their career or cause their real life peers to think less of them. That is not the case with ProDommes on here. This is not a hobby for us or just a bit of entertainment.

I have noticed that very little moderation has been necessary on this board and I believe it's because people know someone is watching. To those that are concerned about censorship, there are multiple moderators on here (Green Names) and we all have a voice and I believe we are quiet diverse in opinions and sensibilities. I feel confident that Admin will listen to us all in the event of a problem. Admin also offered to have a male submissive run a board which would give him moderation authority too, but no one has stepped up. I, for one, would like to see this happen.

I had no idea that green names meant moderators. I thought that choosing a color, like you choose an image or a signature is part of the customization available here.

As a matter of fact green is a little counter intuitive because moderation is more about red lines.

Like everybody else, I have my biases too. Hearing something questionable from somebody you trust is very different from hearing the same from somebody you don't. The fact that I hear people I trust favoring moderation, has an impact.

My view was that a large community has natural anti corps. When somebody goes overboard there were usually many negative responses from regular users even in the absence of moderators.

Those who come from MF and are very patient might remember my proposal how to create and maintain a list of active mistresses in a forum form. I spent some time thinking about the administration, and my solution, one administrator and multiple curators (kind of the equivalent of a moderator) was addressing how to do it without anybody having to spend a lot of time on these jobs.

What would I expect of a moderator? First somebody with a lot of time on his hands. Preferably somebody who has posted a lot, like an addict at MF. The ability to get along, to have an open mind, to be somewhat of a diplomat. So it is a demanding and unpaid job, and it is remarkable that there are multiple persons willing to do it. This bodes well for this site.

Well I also think that an unseen side effect of that is when there is no moderation, people just leave quietly. Sure lots of people announce they are quitting, but they never are the people who do.

+1

Hello,I always enjoyed your posts.

I think that moderation is a tool, like an ax. It can be used to cut wood or to cut heads. It is also something of a given for a site, some have it, some don't and this is usually not negotiable.

I am just starting to get acquainted to this site, at this point I spend more time reading old content on MF, around 2011, which I consider kind of a golden age. To my surprise I find there more people thinking like me and feeling like me, and nowadays this is not too common.

Returning to this site, and this is a first impression, it has done the heavy lifting, because the most difficult part is to bootstrap. I know how hard it s to move the needle, I tried at MF but the inertia is huge.

I think that here there is an interesting history at play. My impression is that the original success here was by establishing a niche, mistresses unhappy for a reason or another with MF. It established a good infrastructure administrative and otherwise in a leisurely way, on low traffic.

As MF ran into problems, some of the active users there joined in. In the most recent run my favorite alternative was Lady Cheyenne's site, because she had proved her business acumen for a period of over 10 years, but this site was up and running, well structured and quick on its feet, and it became the favorite alternative.

Now success can bring its own problems. IMHO some of the problems seen as lack of moderators were really about a big volume, big traffic site with lots of posters. When you have more users you have more outliers.

If you want to read posts, there is a lot to read. There are a lot of users coming and going, a lot more difference of nuances and opinions, and eventually it becomes a different ball game.

Repeatedly you have to make choices, are you going to be inclusive or exclusive, and to what degree? Do you want to keep your character, which started as a protest, or do you want to become a replacement of the largest community, and in the process become your parent you rebelled against? Future will tell.

I don't know what is going on with this situation. But, I will say, there is nothing wrong with liking it up the ass. Strap on play can a ton of fun.