Are there at least 2 kinds of f bi?

There was some recent discussion of aspects of forced bi and that led me to search for the topic again at maxfisch, and there is a thread from several years ago, that began like this:

>Hello,
>I'm interested in hearing views of people on whether forced bi is >actually forced.
>I've seen discussions elsewhere with a variety of opinions.

The thread was from about 4 years or 5 years ago or so, on maxfisch.

One poster had an interesting post in which mentioned a situation in which he was at Hellfire--I am not sure what Hellfire is or if it still exists--a guy came in and was caned or whipped and paddled until he was crying and then dommes took him away to a back cubicle with possible f b results as he was finishing crying.

It seems to me that there are two or three kinds of "forced bi."

One--the domme lists forced bi as an option and clients and subs request it. Or, if the guy does not request it, the domme suggests it and he agrees to it more or less easily.

Two--the domme may or may not list forced bi as a possibility. The domme may or may not respond to direct requests for forced bi. The domme establishes a relationship or permission with the guy in which she can cane, whip or paddle him to tears or to crying out for mercy or a safeword that she may or may not honor. Perhaps she says that she only honors safewords at her discretion; perhaps she says that after the 3rd visit, she expects no safewords and probably won't honor them; perhaps she says that safewords being used after the 3rd or 4th visit mean she won't see the guy again; perhaps she says that she plays by her rules and those who see her must understand that, meaning that safewording is going to be limited and at times non-existent; perhaps her website makes no mention of safewords; perhaps she and some new subs never discuss or establish a safeword.

(Such phrases, tactics and approaches are found in a variety of websites of well-known and nationally or internationally travelled dommes . . . Without seeking or even considering f b, I've seen two dommes without anyone creating safewords . . . With another domme, we've both almost forgotten--after the first visit--that there was a safeword or what it was . . . and with each visit, the idea of safewording gets less reasonable and more offensive to either of us.)

And suppose we have the second type of relationship--the sub esteems and values the domme and the sub has somehow accepted that he may be caned or whipped without a safeword "out." The domme and the sub both know that if the domme wishes, she can and will cane or whip the guy for the whole session and leave him bleeding and screaming.

And then, either with some warning on a different visit, or a mild suggestion to test the water, or with a bit more surprise,

the domme canes and whips or paddles the guy till he is crying or yelling or has been screaming. Maybe she says that he needs to let her know when to stop, even if she might or might not stop.

And, after 10 to 45 minutes, he starts crying and gives in and asks for mercy, and then she takes him to the stunt or brings a stunt cock in or even two or three stunt cocks in.

Now, that would tend to be "forced bi," in a way different from type one, which is requested or agreed upon beforehand.

Of course, there is a form of forced bi that is in between these. The guy expects a forced bi session, but does not know the details and in fact may believe it is oral only or with a condom only. The domme and he have not discussed the details. The domme has perhaps deceived him a bit by having him practice on a dildo or strap-on with a condom . . .

The domme then takes him up to crying and screaming and asking for mercy or really wanting to stop . . . and there is the stunt cock who appears and is about to peg him and/or the domme expect him to *** and swallow. . . . The domme in some way expects more of him than he was expecting.

Anyway, the first type of forced bi is pretending . . . and the 2nd two types are a more coerced . . .

I am not sure if that means anything practically for any of you. Most of you have an approach that works for you, obviously . . .

One thing that would be funny would be to read on a domme website:
"Forced bi, but not with those who ask!"

*** different but related topic . . . what is or was this "Hellfire"? Was it a general bdsm party (or dungeon) or one where most people were expected to be willing to do forced bi?

HELLFIRE - It is closed now.

It existed in NYC during the 60s, 70s, 80s, maybe into the early 90s, I think.

Most nights, it was a place for people to meet for intimate relationships elsewhere, though there was a large cavernous back room, where the more adventurous sometimes moved right into it.

Friday and Saturday nights were set aside most often for M/F couples. Other nights, Monday to Wednesday were typically for gay men, sometimes Lesbian Women. Thursdays became the night for Domme Females and sub males.

In the beginning, the adventuresome did whatever they pleased in the back room. But, when the HIV/AIDS crisis arrived, Hellfire banned any exchange of fluid on their premises. you could get kicked out for violating that rule, and you could get arrested for repeat violations.

Other places came along for M/F couples to meet in better, cleaner, more discreet surroundings. Thursdays at Hellfire became their best day.

The location was in the meat packing district, then dingy and since almost entirely redeveloped with luxury housing.