I recently had a discussion with an ProDomme from another large town. She's been in the business for 20 years and I have been a pro for 10 and was a lifestyler 10 years prior to that. We both acknowledged seeing a recent shift in the attitude of subs - both current and new, but mainly new. Among recent behavior changes we noted a general lack of respect and failure to follow protocol when contacting, more cancellations and no shows, more forfeited deposits and aggressive/rude dialogue when trying to set up appointments. All of these behaviors centered around one thing - a lack of respect for our time and as people in general.

For her the change started about year ago. I noticed it about 6 months ago. She blames FOSTA/SESTA. Her thoughts are that it put our business in the news and brought out the wrong type of client and that it made existing clients more paranoid. She also cited the polarization caused by politics and beyond.

I also partially laid the blame on divisive issues. I think things like the Me Too movement have caused some animosity between the sexes. I also blamed SESTA/FOSTA but for different reasons. Since SESTA/FOSTA more Dommes have started self identifying as sex workers in solidarity with other industry professionals. My escort acquaintances have always expressed awe in how well Domme's clients tend to treat them. I think by self identifying as SWs we may have further blurred the lines which is fostering this kind behavior.

In the end we mostly agreed with each other's opinions and as a result expanded our own thoughts on the subject. What of your thoughts? Have Dommes done things to make you think of them or treat them differently? Domme's have you noticed the same thing with sub's behavior?

I don't want this to turn into a political discussion and have to move this to the politics sections, so let's keep the discussion limited to the effect some of these things have on Domme and sub behavior. I hope we have a lively discussion.

Interesting topic!

I'm French so I don't know much about FOSTA/SESTA. But I do have an opinion on the rest.

I'm thinking of two main things:
-Societywide uberisation
-The growing popularity of BDSM


•Societywide uberisation as nowadays everything tend to be only more of a service than a exchange between two people. This could lead to pro dominas being seen more as domination supplier than actual women, actual persons, that deserve the same respect if not more than anybody else, even if you pay for it.

•BDSM has gained a lot of popularity in past few years, for the better and the worse. 50 shades of grey for example has been a major factor in this.
This point concerns only new clients though. The thing is, BDSM could now know more men who want to try new things, who want a thrill ; than "true" submissive men for whom BDSM is way more than a thrill, and whose profil is more encline to show women a lot of genuine respect.



Also, I think that Twitter could be a factor. Pro-dommes express themselves more, as women and not only through their profession, which is cool. It's not rare to see a domina mocking an anonymous client or saying all about what they think is wrong about clients or men in general.
I will accept being blamed for my clichés, but I do believe than submissive men have more often a fragile emotional construct than the regular man with regular interests for sex and women. To feel targeted by this kind of mocking or blaming tweets from a pro-domme, a woman who they thought was supposed to accept them, comfort them, could lead to some sort of disdain I think. The disenchantment to see that pro-dommes are actually the same women they can cross in the street.


Your point with the growing dommes identification as SW is VERY relevant I think. Your topic is a subject I had already questioned myself about, but I didn't think of that.
It is a shame to say, but I think that to a lot of men, being a SW (a "regular prostitute") is somehow shameful and disgraceful. So as you said, pro-dommes identification as SW could impact how these men see them and the respect they are showing. True!

I am going to wade into this. While agree with you on most points, I will have to respectfully disagree on some, and perhaps you will at least see my point.

I feel that SESTA/FOSTA is a large part in what we are seeing with client bad behaviour, though, face it, this is nothing new. BackPage made the entry into professional domination so easy that there were a lot of women who just put out a shingle without even knowing what it was, hoping to make a quick dollar. It was what it was. Now there are a flood of "subs" who are used to this almost "casual" "low end" service, without the constant influx of these dommes the guys are contacting us. Surprisingly, we don't care what Queen Rhianna did 2 years ago for what price. It doesn't fly with us. Arguments ensue--if you allow them.

Gender roles/expectations/behaviours are changing. Me Too was the earthquake, but aftershocks remain. I wish it could be so easy as: "Nice tits!" "Oh, yeah, thanks, but that doesn't really come across as great as you think it does." "Really? I meant it as a compliment." "I think that you did, but it makes me feel uncomfortable in this context." "Oh, I did not know. I will be better next time." Men are angry trying to find their way in this new paradigm. Women are not always taking the higher ground and using it to justify themselves being the asshole now. It is a big confusing mess and I see it getting worse before it gets better. I do prefer the growing pains to not growing at all.

Where I do disagree with you, and we have touched on this before, is the SWer line. Perhaps we are very different SWers than the woman on the street. But I turn that back on the clients. NO WOMAN should be treated poorly, no matter what. I am not a female supremacist, but a stanch humanitarian. I am probably not going to change your mind, but I hope maybe you can take pause to think about why it would ever be okay to treat some one less.

I say this as I also know many different flavors of SWers. It is not what you are willing to do per se, but how you interact with people. I know escorts that are treated like they are made of gold.

Yes things are changing. It is up to all of us to make it in the best way we can.

I am guilty of this, too. I wish I would not, but sometimes I receive requests that are so ridiculous, I can't help myself. 20 years later, I still can't believe the absurdity of my craft. I do think it is a mistake when dommes screen shot conversations trying to humiliate or "sick Twitter" on potential clients who perhaps have misstepped. I think this only serves to aggravate the situation. Will he realise his error? Or will it make him angrier and potentially dangerous. "Men worry they will be laughed at. Women worry they will be killed." This is still a thing.



This may be a better way to say what I tried to say in my other post.

I totally understand why you feel this could be mistake, but when pointing this out I didn't mean to blame pro-dommes who do this.
I want to believe that dominas, even the most caring ones, don't have to take responsability for some men's insecurity and adapt their behavior to them. It's up to those men to change, and yes changing is hard and hurtful, it's life.

On the other hand, I agree with you when you question the usefulness of such public mockings tweets.

I think that nobody is to blame here. Pro-dommes receive so much insulting/weird emails that it can be emotionally challenging, so it's actually healthy wanting to share that, I think. But men behind these emails usually are in deep distress... And potentially dangerous, indeed.


But publicly mock men who sent an awkward/inappropriate email or text but not insulting nor ultra weird (like "bury me alive pls mistress"), is indeed a mistake I think. Maybe you were talking only about those tweets. I 100% agree.



Sad and true. So sad that it's true!

I don't know what would cause such a change, but maybe it's one of those situations in which the medium is the message?

I mean, magazines like DDI and sites like this one (and MF as well) tend to create a feeling that you're part of a community of sorts.

But on Twitter, everyone is sort of atomized, everyone is just another face in the crowd. And people tend to be pretty nasty there.

Just to underscore the point, we don't know each other, but here we are, having a conversation -- it's something that makes sense here, but which would seem strange on Twitter, where I would just be a random guy replying to your tweets.

Twitter is a major factor in everything bad! It's hard to properly train subs amidst the Twitter findom/femdom phenomenon!

Many of these so-called Mistresses have no experience, having never done a real session. Their only real talent seems to be gyrating about in homemade "clips" and begging for money!

I believe in these "Changing times and changing attitudes" we, the experienced Dommes, need to take a strong stand against these internet charlatans.

Mistress Ayn-

I think the blurring of lines between professional domination and full-service sex work has been in effect for quite some time...and before SESTA/FOSTA. The "lumping" together of various offerings on such venues as eros.com seems to have reinforced this. And with this phenomenon has come the tendency of *some* men (I hope a minority) to view Mistresses as a commodity.

Add to this the rise of Instadommes, and the ready availability of fame for any lady who dons leather boots, grabs a riding crop, and poses "for the 'Gram." Unsolicited DMs and catfishing schemes directed at male submissives contributes to a cynical attitude (unfortunately).

What's the way through this? As I reflect on my own involvement in BDSM, I cannot help but recall applying for my very first session over 20 years ago: the application process was basically a series of short-answer essays. There was no "check the box" deal where you select, a la carte, the stuff you want Mistress to do to you. There was no "rate on a 1 to 10" your favorite activities.

What did this do? It puts the onus on the submissive and established the D/s dynamic immediately. I certainly understand why many Mistresses use the newer, check-the-box forms: it cuts down on blathering, novel-length emails and time wasters. But the unintended consequence is the approach of *some* men who view applying for a session as somewhat akin to visiting a sushi bar, pulling out the tiny pencil, and circling how many California rolls he wants.

Long story short: Mistresses should put their collective stilettos down and perhaps take a cue from the "old way." We're here to serve *You* ladies, not the other way around. And, if I'm sincerely interested in giving myself to a Mistress, I shouldn't feel inconvenienced by the bar being raised in the application process.

It's a generational thing. I don't think you'd find that someone who has been pro dommes for 20 years is going to be impolite, disrespectful, more likely to cancel or no-show today than "back in the day." But in the Twitter generation, you have people who have less experience interacting with the real world, and they're accustomed to inquiring in a few words and expecting an answer at text message speed.

I don't see FOSTA/SESTA as contributing to the problem other than perhaps reducing the amount of information about the pro domme that's accessible without making contact - and they don't know how to politely make contact. And you're dealing with people who don't really have a good sense of what your job is, so they imagine only what they expect. And they're more likely to be "Wham! Bam! (no need to) Thank You Ma'am" clients that you'd probably rather not deal with anyway.

You're going to hear from more twits as time goes on. Perhaps a good approach to keeping your sanity and your business is to prepare a thorough, detailed, and polite standard response to the "Hi - can u c me at 4 tomorrow? Will you wear read pantys" approach. The ones who are serious will get it, and hopefully those who aren't will just go away and maybe seek out someone their own age, someone more comfortable with 120 character communications.

It was getting a bit old talking about MF server issues.

Thank you for the interesting thread.