For a long time, there's been a kind of tension between traditional BDSM/femdom people and the findoms and their fans.

I started out as a traditional person, and over the years I've moved to the findom side. I don't feel like that's been a positive thing, and I don't mean to defend that scene here. But it seems to me that we're talking about two fairly different things.

Because on one hand, the traditional femdom scene is rooted, at bottom, in actual face to face interactions. That's what prodommes do. Sites like this one and the hang were based on the idea that there is a community of people who want those face to face interactions, and who want a web site that can help them do that.

The other side of it is very much rooted in online and video interactions. They're not really even interactions, because it's one sided -- women who sell clips to lots of different men probably don't even know that most of their customers exist, or what their names are. Even fairly large findom tributes are fairly anonymized in many instances.

The themes on the findom side have shifted in directions that makes the difference between that scene and traditional femdom more pronounced. One woman who makes videos talks about "pornsexuality" -- the idea that there are men whose natural sexual orientation is with porn, rather than with people. It's very common for POV videos to talk about the viewer as someone who can't have relationships with real people, who prefers the virtual relationship with the porn performer who doesn't even know they exist.

For a long time, we've talked about things as if there's one big scene, and within that scene there are people who are ethical and people who are unethical. Another way of putting that would be to say that there's a single scene, and a right way to do it, and the people from the findom part of it aren't really doing it the right and ethical way.

But it seems to me that as the two parts of it drift further and further apart, they seem to have less and less to do with one another. The experience and meaning of each is quite different, and I believe there's very little overlap between the people who do one versus the other.

I used to be a very enthusiastic client for face to face sessions, but over the years my social anxiety and bad feelings have gotten the better of me, and I am now quite firmly ensconced in the other camp. I wish I were less stuck in it than I am, and do not feel particularly good about it right now, so I'm not trying to argue that people should accept it. But to a certain extent, it is what it is.

What I am saying, I guess, is that over the course of my life I've done both, and I don't really think the two things have that much to do with one another. They seem fairly different to me. And so, I think it probably makes sense for people to start using different names for each of them, and to start operating with the understanding that they are separate and distinct communities.

This would be helpful, and is perhaps even necessary to defend the integrity of the people who do face to face BDSM, given the somewhat toxic nature of what happens on the other side.

I don't think so.

I consider findom to be a subset of professionl femdom, a specialty.

I tend to agree.
Yet, I think we'll just have to set apart findom by actual and trustworthy Mistresses, and the rest.

I think that findom actually is a BDSM practice, a part of our world. But findom itself, as a practice, is splitting up. So I don't think that Femdom is splitting up. It is the findom practice which is.


Indeed, I noticed it now is a - so said - easy access to money for girls (yes, girls) who don't know nothing and think that it is all about insulting, hurting and degrading men. It's not good for all possible reasons, including lower the standards and the huge involvment and work a pro domination activity is. So it even hurts pro dominas reputation.

I'll soon write an article about Twitter and its Moneymiss trend, the BDSM fast-food. I'm following a bunch of accounts to screenshot things that get my attention.

The worst thing I've seen so far, was a medical play with rusty material and unsterilized needles. Well, lighter-sterelized. She justified herself saying that lack of hygiene was a Fetish. Yeah.

Great.
Of course, my post only goes for "Money misses" who offer in-person sessions. But this type of findom actually seems to be more popular than the online-only type.

It's so interesting that you posted this because I was going to elaborate on similar thoughts on the "busting through limits" thread (which is maybe over at MF -- hard to keep track these days).

I'm a bit like you in that I used to be enthusiastic about face-to-face but now session very infrequently. It's been over a year. I have done phone/online, though, which has had a strong findom component -- and this after being in the past quite negative and judgmental about that scene. My thing is that I only talk to one woman, and she's not someone who has a clipstore or anything. She has a strong specialty in findom but it's not the only thing she does. And IRL she does play in the lifestyle. Recently we did a multi-day session that drifted into TPE and involved heavier findom than I have ever done. It was definitely a heavier, more intense mindfuck than I've ever experienced in a one to two hour session face to face. I would say now that if I'm in a submissive frame of mind I feel the draw much more to that kind of scene than a face to face one, and, like you, I'm not sure that's a positive thing. In fact, after my recent experience I vowed to try to do an in-person session next -- however long from now that may be.

I think aging and changes in the NY scene have something to do with it. I'm often hesitant to book in advance just because I'm not sure what my mood and energy levels will be like on the day. I'm not so into meeting new dommes (maybe a bit of social anxiety there too). I'm less drawn to dommes much younger than me, which rules out so many new dommes. And I think my interest in taking pain has kind of plummeted. But it's also true that the mental manipulation taking place in an online findom scene has a kind of crack cocaine element to it, combining as it does the various compulsions that have arisen in the digital age with all the traditional power exchange dynamics.

So I guess I'm in between the two poles you wrote about. My online findom play is very personal and with someone I have played with in some form (all online/phone) for years. The session I just wrote about ended with a couple of hours of conversational aftercare (off the clock). It's far from the kind of anonymous tributing that you see on Twitter. As for that kind of findom play -- binging on clips, anonymous tributing, being a kind of fan -- I do agree with you that at this point it's its own thing, quite divorced from traditional SM.

I wonder why you guys consider clips buying or phone sessions as findom? (I'm genuinely asking).
You are buying an actual service, the same way that John Doe pays for regular porn or chatline and he's not into findom.

Findom wouldn't be more buying gifts and sending tribute for nothing other than her to exist? Like Jasmin Mendez for example, she seems to be very good at it.

In my case, the findom is within the phone session or even outside of it -- a text demanding immediate tribute, for example.

I don't consider buying a clip findom -- but if a domme were to order a sub to buy every clip on her store, I would. (I'd also consider it findom if a domme made clips instructing a slave to tribute and he did -- it's impersonal but still within the findom dynamic.)

I do agree that FinDom is a subset of BDSM, but it is not at all something I enjoy. Do I like it when a trusted slave spoils me? Sure. The constant trolling on both sides on line, however, I am out of that. I don't see it as "free money from pay piggies" I see it as beneath me and begging.

Though not kinky, I somehow feel the findom thing and "Instagram Model" thing go together. Not my thing. Slave up and come into my dungeon to serve me in person. None of these games.

Interesting question. Many dommes who offer face to face sessions also offer financial domination, so it seems like one thing is a subset of the other. But I have followed dommes on Twitter and know it is possible to build a 24-7 fantasy world that revolves almost entirely around the Internet with very little personal interaction between domme and sub being necessary. It's possible that you are right and Internet findom and traditional domination are evolving into two independent but related things. Findom was never a fetish of mine so I have a very limited understanding of it. I deleted my Twitter account a while ago and have since gone over to the face-to-face camp almost entirely.

+1

So cool to see a Lady like you saying this. Coming from a random sub, it's easy to be seen as bitter or something like that!

I agree.