Due to the recent movies there has been a lot of talk about Dune of late. There is a rather nuanced aura of Femdom around the Bene Gesserit sisters (and damn Rebecca Ferguson is hot). However Frank Herbert wrote 5 sequel novels. In the bloated God Emperor of Dune the bloated protagonist has an all female army called the Fish Speakers which also exudes some dominant vibes.

Then we come to the last two Frank Herbert Dune novels (I haven't read any of his son's works) Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune. In them there is an organization called the Honoured Matres. They are sort of an offshoot of the Bene Gesserit mixed with some Fish Speakers. The image that immediately comes to mind with them is Dominatrix. So much so they are almost a parody. They rule through a mixture of violence and sexual manipulation. Several parts pf the last two books come across as poorly written porn.

So has anyone else here read either of those two books and if so what was your reaction to the Honoured Matres?

Strangely, I haven't read these books. I would have loved them as a teenager, but the thick volumes and sprawling series were too much of a commitment for me. I preferred to read Orwell, Huxley, Bradbury, Hineline, Asimov, Clarke, etc. I'm thinking about picking them up this summer.

I can see your point in the Dominatrix archetype from the movies. There is a strange amount of gender equality but separation, as could be imagined in 1965. However, the Bene Gesserit sisters are not all that different from their male counterparts. House Harkonnen definitely controlled with sex and violence. I believe it's pretty common to fetishize someone with power, who is a little dangerous, and really interesting to see how it's evolved through the lens of pop culture. I have quite a few opinions and observations about this, but I'm getting way of topic now.

I look forward to having a more nuanced, book-specific discussion with you after those tomes travel on the plane/train/beach with me this summer.

I thought the cast of David Lynch's Dune projected more femdom vibes.

I've heard from others that the Dune series gets steadily worse after the original trilogy.


I read the Dune Trilogy, plus the fourth book years ago.

I could see the decreasing quality in the fourth book.

You only need the first book to get more enjoyment out of the movies and to get most of the story.

Actually I would be most interested in hearing those opinions even if they are tangental. BTW your taste in SF authors is very similar to my own.

If you do intend to continue on with Dune novels here is a spoiler free heads up about what to expect:

Dune Messiah The shortest of the Dune novels and the easiest to read. Downside is that it gets progressively grim

Children of Dune: The most cerebral of the series. So much so it comes across as pedantic at times.

God Emperor of Dune: Longest of the books. Often described as being a love it or hate it book. My opinion is oxymoronically a mixture of both.

Heretics of Dune: It is easier to read than the prior book. There is some interesting world building but that can't make up for the lack of genuinely interesting characters.

Chapterhouse: Dune: Has many of the same problems and after a while starts to seem pointless

DUNE ! ? my brother was fascinated with the novels in his teens. Dropped out of high school in his last year, wrecked 2 cars, enlisted in the army, deserted, got the diesel treatment, discharged less than honorable (all before hitting 18).... pursued a rewarding career as a security guard.....(do you see a trend here)....permanently lost his driver's license.

And some say porn rots your brain.

One person reads the Dune novels and becomes a ne'er-do-well, implying that there is a relationship between the two things?

are you some kind of time traveller? "ne'er do well"

there is also some serious exploitation of females in the dune universe. the bene lleilax turned their woman into axlotl tanks. axlotl tanks had once been women who turned into a baby factory. they were used to make the face dancers and later they even were able to produce spice. but they were essentially lobotomizing their women and turning them into giant uterus es (or uterii?) talk about being sentenced to hell! a never ending existence of child birth.

correlation does not imply causation sir. my life went off the rails long before i read dune...of course it was right after i started read vonnegut and that was probably what did it. probably would have been better if they just kept me illiterate.

what's so great about Vonnegut?

discovering my dad's porn stash when I was 12 greatly improved my reading ability but diminished my eyesight