I'll leave it to the moderators to move this or strike it from the site completely.

On MF an item was recently posted about two Mistresses having a session with a Catholic priest at his church. (I haven't posted the link because names were mentioned.) I'm a lapsed Catholic at best. A woman I met via her being a Mistress when we both were in our 30s was also a lapsed Catholic and we became lovers. Once, over a few glases of wine, it came up that it would be hot to make love inside a church when it was closed to sanctify our love for each other. (Not on the altar. Closet? Maybe the confessional... that would be appropriate.)

Now this summer, my longtime Mistress and I have done some outdoor sessions (small ones) in secluded areas. I found a rundown cemetery. We did something there recently but it was brief. Might try a longer one before the summer ends... not sure. The legal risks are great, but who knows.

The relationship between my longtime Mistress and I is transactional. But we do care a lot about each other and when we play it is a loving, caring give and take. (The lady in my 30s was a love affair.) I realize all the practical ethical, political, moral reasons for people acting in horror about doing such things at those locations, but if the phrase from New Testament truly means, "God is love," if you make love - or something like it - at church why would it be a crime? Or a true believer, a sin?

(Just asking for a friend. )

Most people who are into Goth absolutely love both cemeteries and churches for trysts like that. Even for normies the forbidden is always more exciting when it comes to sex and both of those settings are about as forbidden as possible for anyone with a religious background (either loving or resenting it). I would guess that the number of sexual encounters in houses of religion would rival pretty much anywhere other than hotel rooms because of this, but most of that would be vanilla couples doing "normal" things in a place that is just more exciting.

However, in every organized religion (irregardless of the actual teachings of the religious text) there is a puritanical streak that at some level is anti-sex (or in the case of some cults pro-sex but in a very specific and prescriptive way). For that part of the congregation that are hard-core, the thought of any sexual activity that is not specifically prescribed by that religious authority in a completely private setting is dirty/bad in some way in general, so doing that in a place that is religiously sacred to them is offensive.

As a side note, I just drove past a sign on someone's lawn yesterday that said "The wages of sin is death" (reference is Romans 6:23 from some unknown writer supposedly inspired by god).. and I thought, well... isn't the wages of being "good" also death? I mean, the holy prophet James Douglas Morrison wrote "No One Here Gets Out Alive" (reference is Waiting for the Sun 2:5).

My questions, like yours, are Why should I care about your view of sin Mr. religious zealot anti-sex person and why should anyone consider your religious text, and interpretation of such, as any "better" than mine from a legal/ethical/moral standpoint?

AspX - Bravo! Thank you.

i am also a lapsed catholic. that term is so complex and difficult to deal with because it can mean so many different things. i think that a lot of these issues evoke strong feelings in different people because their reasons for becoming a lapsed catholic are so varied. it creates lenses that people use when they look at either the catholic church or a particular incident.

some have lost their faith because of a loss of faith. aetheism and agnositicism seem to create a certain kind of lapsed catholic. victims of institutional abuse have varied reactions including rage and lashing out at the institution are the path some take while others slip into despair. i think this matters in this discussion because reflection on why you want something seems to be important. so when you are considering doing something such as violating a sacred place (sacred to someone, but maybe not everyone) the question that i try to answer for myself if i were considering this is why am i doing this? what does doing this give me? what inside of me makes me want to do this? something i didn't ask myself when i alternated between diving into catholicism whole heartedly and rebelling against the schools and churches i went to.

to me, the essence of what you are thinking about doing is all about the sacred and the profane. the profane is the everyday life. the things that we use everyday are of this world. the sacred are the things that are set aside for special use like the altar in a church or a cemetery. i don't think that there is a divinity which consecrates things. i leave that question as something that i just don't know. which is why i usually identify myself as an agnositc and a lapsed catholic. i look at the sacred as something that was set aside for special use by a group of people.

so to consider your question, i would ask more questions. who are the people that made this place sacred? what is my relationship to these people? do i care about them? do i want to offend them?

the legal issue is simpler, engaging in public play exposes that person to legal risk if caught. kink is frowned upon in the public eye to such an extent even a questionable areas will get a legal response. i don't think that situation you referenced in lousiana is comparable or relevant due to other issues playing into both the churches response, publlc reaction and legal response. but, i would still expect a legal response if law enforcement caught someone in public play.

nice post!

we must have been typing at the same time. i think that we are seeing this in a similar way. i think that we both are throwing out the divine and considering the people involved in making the place sacred. people make things sacred, not some imaginary guy with a beard. you didn't say this, but i will sometimes people want to offend a certain group and that is why they violate a sacred place.

this makes me think of sinead o'connor. she was an irish singer who ripped a picture of the pope in half during her performance on saturday night live. she intended to shock and offend in order to call attention to child abuse by the catholic church. she was pilloried and attacked publicly. she paid a heavy price for doing what she did, and now years later, we know she was right. a picture of the pope isn't sacred, but ripping it in half got a reaction far greater than anyone who violated a church got. that is a big part of why my consideration of this scenario keeps going back to the question of what is my relationship to the group involved in making that place sacred. sometimes people want to offend and shock for very good reasons, like sinead o'connor. other times it is motivated by the thrill of doing something "wrong".

Nice story about your past love affair.

Also, congratulations on finding a prodomme that turned into a long term business relationship where you both care about each other.



I never read the New Testament. Is the main message really "god is love"? It seems like it says many other things too.

The reason what you want to do is a crime is simple. Laws.
Other people's property. Those other people don't want things like that taking place on their property. Done.

Sin?

I think that is simple too. The New Testament says sex outside of marriage is a sin. Though not intercourse, a session between a prodomme and her client is a sexual activity.

If someone did a scene or a photo shoot in a graveyard where my loved ones were buried, I'd have a serious problem with it. If it were in front of my grandmother's grave or posing with her tombstone, there would be appropriate consequences. A poster said something about a consensual session in a church here. The women were filming for commercial gain, without proper permission. They mocked the beliefs of the church in an extreme way. Even if it were a session only at invitation of wayward caregiver, it would be wrong. Build your own church and graveyard set. Don't infringe on others.

We don't have to agree with someone's deeply held belief system to have respect for others. I expect it when it comes to my sets and session space. All scene players should. But no one should forget it is a two way street.

The admin will make the decision on whether to 86 this thread.

Junglebeast, I love your fun stories and input here. You usually make me smile. I know you don't mean harm here. But, this is a sensitive subject that has been talked about ad nauseum.

"My questions, like yours, are Why should I care about your view of sin Mr. religious zealot anti-sex person and why should anyone consider your religious text, and interpretation of such, as any "better" than mine from a legal/ethical/moral standpoint? "

You shouldn't. I roll my eyes at stuff like that as well as over the top billboards. Religious zealots make all Christians look like loons when that isn't the case. But, they are in their own space, doing more harm than good to their own cause. It isn't until they bring it to the adult or kink community, advocating for non kink legislation or efforts to get fetish events shut down, that anyone should have a problem with it.

Getting into graveyard and church territory is not cool in my book. It isn't just bad for the families of deceased loved ones and church members, but it makes the kink community look embarrassingly bad. What is so wrong with giving religious folks the same respect that we want for ourselves?

I 100% agree with you Cheyenne. I am not religious and am not a fan of organized religion but I still respect their beliefs, temples, synagogues and mosques. And their dead.

My grandfather lived near and was the caretaker of a small, rural cemetery. I spent time with him there and was never afraid of commentaries or considered them edgy. But I did see people he and I knew grieve and honor their deceased love ones. The idea of kinky play happening there just so someone can experience a fleeting excitement is repulsive. Our kinks need to have limits.

AspX, broom, Soapy, Mistress Ayn and Cheyenne, my thanks for your thoughtful approach that officially brought me to my senses. My experience at the cemetery was brief. I was uncomfortable, yet aroused. I drove there by myself yesterday thinking about some of the issues you mention. Of course you are all correct.

My apologies to all who posted about this and anyone who read it. I guess it was therapy for me to write about it and, you made me recognize my selfishness... there is no other word. I thank you all. And respectfully add that this thread should be closed or shut down. Again, my apologies.