Yes, well, that is true. Findommes on Twitter, for example, make a killing. Well, some fake it but don't really make as much as they show off. But I'm sure many of them are making a good loot.

I went to a professional/lifestyle domme in NYC in 2014. She sessioned out of her own luxurious 2-bedroom apartment in Midtown Manhattan. She bragged that her slaves paid for her lifestyle -- everything, including her rent. You know, one slave doesn't have to pay for it all. There are so many men willing. Now, I can either believe her, and also believe that many other dommes have it that way -- or maybe she was lying. I cannot tell for sure. I do know that it CAN be done, if you have the right attitude and go for the correct audience. Yes, the findommes are at it. I do understand that this may not be the style of most pro-dommes.

But still, professional domination has so many benefits that any complaining (except from newbies or those working at a house) is just whining, really. Actually, I have observed that there are whiners in EVERY business. But I'm not stupid -- I can tell they're doing great but people just like to whine. I actually have a personal friend like this, so I really do know this mentality up close.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. But I still don't understand what is the huge difference between POV and non-POV videos as far as shoot expenses are concerned, or hair and make up. The only thing missing in a POV clip is the free slave.

Doing it with a $400 digital camera might be amateur, but it's good enough for a large audience. Some findommes and humiliatrix girls shoot their own videos using a web cam and upload it to YouTube. I watch them and they look fine to me.

Ok, ok, so everyone has their own standards. I get that.

But... I also highly suggest that the sub willing to expose his face without masks in a video (which IS preferred without a doubt!) carries great value. Dommes worry about losing some money if the sub turns out to be a dud? But the no-mask sub is risking being exposed indefinitely all over the internet, being exposed in family and occupation... and there is no appreciation of that? There is no consideration for the value provided there? Silence regarding this means that people are just not willing to be honest.

I do also suggest that an audition be a 1-hour tribute worth as a security deposit, instead of insisting on a session. If he's a dud, keep the money. Isn't this fair enough given the value of the no-mask sub exposed on in cyberspace for life? Fair enough, or no? Every honest, fair-minded, and thoughtful person should have an easy answer to this.

I agree with that in general but the point is that most POV clips are not some shoot they have to coordinate with multiple people, it is just the Domme and a camera. One of my Dommes actually would shoot POV clips while just going about her normal day... having a cigarette... driving down the road... using the toilet... etc... However, the more people involved, the more headaches and things that can go wrong so non-POV tends to be something that a Domme wishes to look more professional than POV just because it is more work to do that kind of shooting.



I agree with that as well and what I have shot has sold well in relation to other videos by the same Domme(s). But as you say, "everyone has their own standards" and that is exactly why this type of shooting isn't good enough for either Mistress Ayn or Domina M. The same kind of argument can be made for photos, there are plenty of "selfies" that are put out by Dommes all the time on Twitter and Instagram, but that is not the same output or production value as having a professional photographer do a shoot for you with professional hair and makeup.

Any media that is released by a Domme has an effect on their reputation and needs to be thought of as part of their overall marketing strategy. If all they care about is maximizing the profit they make from selling clips, then what I participate in (and what you are proposing) is probably better because the costs are significantly lower. However, Mistress Ayn specifically stated that the point of her videos is to reflect the quality of her sessions in order to increase her Pro Domme business, not to maximize the profit from C4S or other clip stores. Therefore, the production value is incredibly important to her. Domina M, although not specifically stating the same thing in this thread, obviously feels the same way.

The thing is that this is THEIR business and THEIR livelihood not ours, so it really shouldn't be our place as camera person or video slave to question what the production values needs to be or what they feel they need from us when we are basically begging to be involved. I don't mean that from a Female Supremacy thing or even a Domme vs. sub thing, I mean it from the perspective of who is in charge of that particular activity. As stated earlier in the thread, if you were the production company who put together the shoot and paid the Dommes to be the on-camera talent, then the production values would totally be up to you (I have been with Dommes who were paid by the hour for shooting with a production company and were required to show up at the shoot with their hair/makeup already done and ready to shoot rather than having it done on the set by a professional). However, the Domme is acting in that role in these cases and therefore it is not our place to state what the production values should be.



I agree that it is preferred, but I don't think it carries great value from a business perspective. Masked vs. Unmasked has almost no effect on clip sales. In fact, the sub is barely even more relevant than a prop in regards to turning a profit. Clips sell because of the Domme(s) and the subject, not because of the sub involved or whether they are masked/unmasked. I am sure you are going to dispute this because of the personal value you place on unmasked subs but my statement is based on seeing actual sales numbers, not personal preferences.



Nope... absolutely none. For us, it is fantasy and kink and fun to be a part of a shoot and hang out with the Domme(s). But for the production company or for the Domme, shooting clips/video is a business. Most Pro Dommes do sessions because they can make money doing something they love to do, but shooting is work pure and simple for every Domme I know. The sub screwing up the shoot costs the Domme time and money (plus drives their level of stress/frustration through the roof). The sub being a dud means the Domme doesn't get the feedback she needs to give the level of performance her fans are accustomed to, which means a dud of a clip that can effect future sales (which again, drives their level of stress/frustration through the roof... and in case you haven't ever noticed, Dommes do not exactly deal well with being frustrated by a sub).

Further, if a "no-mask sub" is risking anything by shooting without a mask because they are still "in the closet" in regards to D/s, then they are both a complete dumbass who is thinking with the wrong body part and actively making that dumbass choice for themselves. As much as I have talked about shooting and being on sets, have you noticed I have never talked about being in front of a camera (masked or not)? That is because I do have those concerns and therefore will not be a video slave (and believe me, I have missed out on some amazingly kinky opportunities because of it). So, obviously, I think the risks you mention are very real... but that is a personal choice the sub makes for themselves and is irrelevant to the point of the shoot or whether there should be some special consideration given to them in regards to the hoops they have to jump through to get to be a video slave to begin with.



...and I suggest that Dommes that I wish to book a first session with allow me to send them a short two-paragraph email of introduction instead of filling out another ridiculous half-assed webform on their contact page that doesn't work half the time and never is as efficient as my way of doing things. BUT, that isn't the way things work and we as applicants have to do it the way that the person we are applying to wishes it to be done regardless of what we think is fair or efficient.

I am not saying your suggestion is wrong or unfair. I am saying that when you apply to do anything, whether it is for a job or to be a camera slave, making alternative suggestions to the process that is put before you is never appreciated and hardly ever acceptable. You know as well as I do that there are no set rules for any of this and each Domme has their own way of doing things. If you want to serve or work with them, you have to submit to whatever rules/process they lay out regardless of what "others" do. Its just the way of the world in general, but as I am sure you know it is especially the way of our Pro/client D/s world.

It's like music. Sub-cassette quality MP3 files and YouTube music are good enough for a whole lot of people. But there are still (even "high profile" like Neil Young) boosters of "high resolution" audio. And I just saw a "Wanted" post on my local FreeCycle board the other day from someone looking for old vinyl records "because they sound so much better than YouTube that I listen to now."

Well, there are all kinds of people, and I guess there are some who get off on that enough to pay for it. I can't imagine anything more boring. But I understand the idea behind doing such a video. It's cheap, easy, and if it brings in lunch money a couple of days a month, why not?

Well, Domina M, at least at one point, did offer $75-150 per hour to video slaves who did NOT wear a mask, where a masked slave was given zero. So she herself saw value at one point. Furthermore, American Mean Girls say on their site that they do allow masks but prefer no masks. And if you want no pain and only humiliation, masks are not allowed.

The fact that it is preferred means there must be some value; otherwise, why have a preference? The value is not admitted because they don't want to give any consideration for no masks even though exposing yourself carries great risk for the sub. It doesn't matter if he's out of the closet -- it's still risky. A Twitter contact of mine knows I'm interested in being in videos. One of the first questions he asked me was whether I was comfortable being on camera without a mask. Preferece = value (though, for selfish reasons, often not admitted).



Yes, this is true about the whole world and is one of the reasons why the world is such a messed up place. What you just said can be described in one hyphenated word: closed-minded. When alternative suggestions are not appreciated nor accepted, even when the current process makes little to no logical sense, then that is just stubbornness and stupidity combined -- and indeed, much of the world operates this way, and much of the world suffers the consequences of this small-minded attitude.

I currently work part-time for a small business in addition to all the other stuff I do. The business owner is actually open enough to consider all my suggestions. She has already implemented some of my ideas and her business has shown noticeable improvement. That's proof enough for me that even though it is your livelihood, it is a good idea to be open and consider alternative suggestions. You don't have to accept everything, but at least listen!

I am open. When I announced that I am planning on creating an interesting Femdom site, one member from here PM'd me with two suggestions. I liked both of them and will definitely keep them in mind.

My suggestion regarding the concerns dommes have with video slaves is completely fair and any resistance to it is exactly what I talked about above: stubbornness and stupidity combined.

To clarify, the context of my "no value" statement you quoted was in response to your question/statement that the Domme should take the possible impacts to the sub being exposed on the Internet as "value". I don't agree with that, as those impacts are irrelevant from the producer's business perspective.

I do agree that an unmasked sub gives the video a better look/feel and therefore is preferable, so it does add value to the process. This is especially true since the supply of subs willing to go unmasked is lower, which you correctly state does translate into value that can be monetized by the sub IF the producer feels this is important or critical to what they wish to achieve.

As for the second comment, I don't agree in the specific context I was responding to which also goes to the producer putting value on a personal choice you are making in regards to possible future impacts on your own life (which is irrelevant to them from a business perspective). The point I was trying to make was that your "suggestion" for a producer to change the way they are comfortable doing business (based on a lot of factors they have taken into consideration) because of something that is irrelevant to them, is about negotiating something better for yourself (or others in the same position) rather than showing your value and will therefore never get you in the door (which is what the original post was about)

This is a very different context than when you are already a part of the team and working in a collaborative way (as you do at the part-time job) or when you are just throwing ideas over the wall to someone as people did in DMs. The fact that you considered and included those suggestions in your plans is a false equivalency since the actual equivalent situation would be if you met the DMd suggestions with ways that the person who provided them to you should do things differently.

Domina M and Mistress Ayn both came into this thread to help YOU with suggestions, as well as providing you knowledge of their process, and you met that with statements about how THEY should "improve". They did not say they were having problems finding subs to shoot with (which your alternative deposit suggestion would address); they did not say they wanted to lower or even eliminate the costs surrounding their shoots (which your alternative "do your own MUAH and use subs to shoot" suggestion would address); instead they were the ones providing suggestions to the problem you were asking for help with. In that context, your "suggestions" were very rude in my opinion (and obviously theirs) and I honestly think you owe each of them an apology for that.

Even though you haven't said anything, for my part I want to apologize to you if any of my statements have come across as overly harsh or personally critical of you. I admit that I was upset earlier in the thread because I felt your responses to them weren't appreciative enough of their efforts to help you after you posted here asking for that help. My upset was not because they are both incredibly hot Dommes who I would be lucky to be able to kiss the feet of someday (yes... You can totally read this last sentence as me trying to suck up to incredibly hot Dommes who I would be lucky to be able to kiss the feet of someday because, hey I'm a total slut for that), but really because they are two real people who took time out of their life to try to help. That upset certainly translated into the tone of my responses and if that in any way offended you, I wanted to say I am sorry.

*Mistress pats AspX on head*

*AspX's leg starts twitching and thumping on the ground* oh yea... Right behind the ear... That's the stuff...

AspX, you are very articulate and detail-oriented, and I very much appreciate your clarity of thought and your intelligence. But I fail to understand the above words. Can you please re-phrase?

As far my understanding goes, the people who DM'ed me are not working with me and have not ever worked with me in any kind of team or collaborative way -- and yet, I have been open to their suggestions. To put it less harshly than I did in my previous post, anyone who is not open to suggestions and is convinced that their established order is the best is, well, potentially missing out, sometimes a lot! I can stretch my imagination and list all the ways people have lost so much by NOT appreciating or supporting me -- and I am referring to my life in general. Now, some of those people look back and regret it; but, it's too late now.



No, this is only partially true. Yes, it was their intention to help. I will agree with that. But my suggestions were not directed towards them in particular. They were general suggestions for anyone who demands a tribute-paid session as an "audition" when a security deposit makes much more sense. It may be true that they perceive no need to do this because they are able to find subs willing to do things according to the established order, but that does not make it fair. If fairness is irrelevant, then I personally will have no part with such businesses and individuals. Other people can do what they want. Regardless of others' opinions, I personally DO place value on an no-mask slave (as Domina M herself apparently did years ago). I also place a huge value on fairness and ethics in any business.

When fairness and ethics are irrelevant, then that is rooted in selfishness -- which, you cannot deny honestly speaking, is a major contributor to all of the planet's problems. The "what's in it for me" question continuously raised is a valid one, but what I contest is the fact that the vast majority of people ONLY think of their own benefit with no regards to the other side.

There are very few people on this planet who think like me. This is actually something for me to be proud of, regardless of the tiny frustrations occasionally caused by being the "black sheep". I believe that service-to-self should be balanced with service-to-others in a voluntary (non-coercive) way. Let me give you another example. Years ago, I had my own small business in a nearby town. I used to hire people sometimes even when I didn't "need" any more staff. Why? To support them because I was able to see that they were struggling to find jobs. How many people can say that honestly? Usually, businesses say, "Sorry, but we don't need additional staff at this time" but then they put up a big "Now Hiring" sign when and only when they need people. Those people who I hired, by the way, still remember me with love over a decade later.

I think this selfishness is animalistic, and unfortunately humans have not yet evolved much beyond this. I am aware of the truth that separation is an illusion. You and I are as separate as your right hand is to your left hand. But the hands have lost consciousness of their mutual connection (via the body between). That is how most of us live our lives -- in the illusion of separation. This illusion has a very useful purpose; it allows us to experience life from an individual finite-awareness point of view, and also allows us to express Infinity in our own unique way. If this illusion was not there, subs would not have any desires to be dominated, nor would dommes have any desire to whip a sub -- and this would affect our relationships as well. BUT, the awareness that separation is but an useful illusion is so uplifting. I actually have fun with it.

I no longer fight "enemies", but rather, whenever I oppose anyone about anything, I am merely playing with the rest of myself. This offers a very peaceful feeling.

I know it seems I am getting way off topic, but I just wanted to express myself. I'm actually having fun right now arguing with you -- not to annoy you, but simply to engage with you (another aspect of myself). A like-minded woman who is a student of the same spiritual school I am of, greeted me on Facebook recently by saying, "Welcome, my mirror!" She gets it!

I used to feel like pressing the gas pedal and hitting the brakes at the same time because I perceived a "conflict" between my spiritual interests and Femdom interests. I even thought about giving up Femdom back in 2013. But I'm still here. Now, I see no conflict. I see my submissive desires and submission to dommes as a valuable expression as any other.

With all this said, even selfishness is a type of expression. So I guess it's all fair in the ultimate sense. But I personally do not resonate with some ways of doing things. I have never really fit in and now, I don't even want to fit in! LOL

Also, I very much resonate with the policies of businesses such as American Mean Girls who require a $100 security deposit. There are few others as well, mostly in the western part of the United States.

It's getting late, but soon I will be posting my appreciation for three dommes in a separate thread. I believe this is a big deal, and so I'll talk about it.