It was over a decade ago: I was sessioning with a new Mistress "outside the perimeter" in Atlanta. After a very informal and cordial "get acquainted" chat, she gave me my initial instructions to disrobe and move into the play area.

She dutifully restrained my wrists to the St Andrew's cross and prepared for an initial round of corporal punishment. Then it occurred to me: she never gave me a safe word.

And you know what? It felt exhilarating! Here I was restrained, unable to stop what was happening, and giving myself completely to a Dominant woman.

The session was wonderful, and the Mistress and I exchanged our thoughts afterward in follow-up emails. I casually mentioned that we never got around to discussing safe words ahead of the session, and she replied that it was a simple oversight and that she uses the standard "Red=stop" system.

Over the years, I will sometimes broach the possibility of relinquishing a safe word with a Mistress that I've served in multiple sessions. It enhances the feeling of surrender and trust, the two qualities that make a D/s relationship so fulfilling and powerful.

What do the rest of you think? While always acknowledging that "safe, sane and consensual" is non-negotiable, can a D/s relationship develop to the point that a sub can "let go of the rope" a little?

I'm curious to see the opinions of both Mistresses and other submissives.

I have forgone and even denied the use of safe words in certain situations. I can remember a few sessions where I announced to the sub that no safe word was available to him and that he was going to have to take what I dished out that day. In one scenario the sub was being punished for some infraction - that got his attention. In another I wanted to push a subs limits - and I did. Those sessions were exhilarating for Me because I knew it was exciting for the sub. Their fear/excitement was palpable and it fed us both.

These sessions require a "sane" Domme that knows when enough is really enough.

Regardless of how great the domme is, nobody is perfect. We are all human. So that is why safe words are always important. However, while safe words can prevent serious bodily damage, they do inevitably cause one other kind of damage: giving the ultimate decision to stop to the slave. That is a turn-off for me. I want to totally surrender and be at her mercy. But what if I experience a muscle cramp or some other internal injury that the domme cannot notice?

So this is how I do it nowadays. The last time I did it was with Mistress Cassandra of NYC. She's awesome, by the way. I stated my hard limits (which are very few), and asked her to honor my safe word ONLY in case of a medical reason. So in session, if I call out my safe word, she would stop. Then I'd have to explain what is wrong. It better be something medical, or else she will continue to torture me. That worked out quite well. I did call out my safe word during canings, but she knew I was just chickening out so she continued caning me. Wow, the helplessness and vulnerability I felt was awesome. At the same time, I knew I was safe if something was wrong medically. (Contact lenses falling out count as medical and you should be given the opportunity to put them back on, lol).

Besides medical reasons, I ask that my safe word be honored in one other situation only: if during public humiliation, I see someone who knows me. In that case, the safe word means we stop the public humiliation and we both go away from that area as far as we can, lol. That has never actually happened. Hey, you never know, it's a small world. Of course, this is only true if I did not have a mask on. Whether to mask me or not is the Mistress's choice.

I LOVE consensual non-consent. It's as real as you can get with safety in mind. Needless to say, it must be done with a sane person whom you can trust.

I may have mentioned that I went through two phases where I wanted very much to have the experience of being made to cry. This resulted in 3 sessions (2 in the first phase 1 in the latter) where I made it clear that there was no safe word. Lots of blood but no tears. I think I can hear Mick Jagger singing LOL. After that I accepted that I don't cry.

BTW whatever happened to our friend ztrade? You would think he would posting left and right to this thread.

I've always understood the "I have NO control" appeal of no-safeword play, but also thought that this was a pretty cut-and-dry issue: YOU are responsible for your own safety, and if you relinquish that, you deserve whatever happens, dummy.

As so often happens, life is more shades of gray. In fact, I never had a safeword with my mistress, who I serve in a lifestyle capacity. I mentioned to her early on that "we forgot to set up a safeword", she smiled and told me I don't get one, and that was all it took for me to just give up my earlier principle of "safeword required, no exceptions". But, I have two things goings for me:

1. I'm expressive and she's intuitive. When I'm reaching my limit I make it very obvious, and she stops, and that's that. So, even though there isn't a formal safeword, there IS a particular behavior that I display that always causes her to change the play. Consent-wise, it serves the exact same function as a safeword; psychologically, it still "feels" like I don't have a safeword, and that's thrilling.

2. My pain limit is moderate at best, so even if she were a little slow recognizing the signs (which she never is), I tend to have a lot of room before any real physical damage is caused. Some of you guys do edgier/riskier activities and have higher/riskier pain tolerances, so don't have the safety margin I do.

I hear a lot of requests for "no safeword" play from novice subs and self-proclaimed experienced subs. Some experienced subs really are experienced, some are outright lying because they think nobody will see a novice, and others have a lot of experience with one person who could read them after years of experience together.

I look at several things. One being if the person has any references I can easily check, to find out how much the sub can really take. Another thing I look at is what they're into. I have few to no concerns about a sub into sissification and SPH, requesting no safeword. Someone into heavy caning who wants no safeword? I would feel more comfortable with that as a second session. At the very least, a longer session, where the first part has a safeword, and I learn to read their reactions, then their safeword gets taken away the second part.

There was a sub I felt had real potential, who felt I went too gently on a first session, and opted to not return because he was convinced I didn't have it in Me to be rough enough with him. During the session, I literally caused him to lose consciousness and pass out, and I left welts on him. I explained that now that I know he could take it, we could go deeper next time. His loss.

Over the years, I've had a few subs not return after swearing they're "bottomless bottoms," into heavy CP with NO safeword, because I spanked and/or whipped them too hard. And that was after discussion over what they could and could not take, what kinds of bruises or welts that had previously endured, how long those took to heal,and so on. I also ask subs where they are at on a scale of 1-10, to gauge how much they can take. One "leather butt's" 6 is another's 2 1/2. If a sub says a swat was a 3, and it's really a 9 but he wants to sound tough, he's only hurting himself... indirectly, but literally.

It's the job of both the sub and the Domme to communicate to their best ability. If the Domme is convinced she's infallible, there's a problem. If the sub makes things up to sound tough, there's a problem. If the sub expects the level of connection they previously felt with another Domme, forged over months or years, to be instant, there's a problem.

Over time, it's different, and having something evolve into not having safewords, excepting medical emergency, is fine and even preferable.

I agree with you. In my case, this session with Mistress Cassandra was only my second one. The first one was a one-hour session with a safe word and I could not take much beating at all. The second session was a 6-hour session. I asked her to only honor my safe word for medical reasons or privacy reasons when in public. She accepted and the session went fine. I was caned. But my screams were loud enough for her to go much easier on me than she would have otherwise, lol. But she did not accept my safe words because there was nothing medical. She even asked me once and I said No, I was just chickening out.

So for me, this no safe word system (with medical and public humiliation privacy exemption) works fine, at least with Mistress Cassandra. I don't session that much so I don't know how it will work with other dommes. I will only go to well-reputed ones though.

Once I was with Mistress Sage St. John and she warned me that she will not have mercy on me, but will give me breaks occasionally between beatings. There was no safe word. But she's a more sensual domme anyway. Her beatings hardly hurt. I uttered nothing more than an occasional soft "ouch". That's it.

I must say that losing consciousness and passing out is dangerous and I would be an idiot to ask for that level if I cannot really take it. I do fantasize extreme, but in reality, have a long way to go to work my way up.

I get my inspiration from web sites such as American Mean Girls, Femdom Empire, ClubDom, Femme Fatale Films, the former OWK, Povhumiliation.com, etc.

I got bored with visiting every day after the forum or board was more quiet for a while, and then I was simply out of the habit . . .

There are probably 2 ways of a person or domme might be thinking of a no-safeword session. One is the sessions in which the domme has a wide choice of activities and the other is where the domme has a narrowed, pre-agreed choice of activities. Since I don't wish sounds, or medical procedures, or to be kicked or nipple tortures and a half-dozen other things, I would not to try set up or agree to a broad and/or chaotic no-safeword session.

Other than that, I think that a person who desires that can choose some dommes who are likely to forget to set up a safeword or suggest going without a safeword by making a guess based on their ads or reviews.

I enjoy "NO" safe-word sessions with a Domme. However I must establish a serious degree of trust/respect with her before I begin that stage of our BDSM relationship. If she ever pushes me beyond a limit (without negotiation) or ignores a safe-word in session I never trust her again! Unfortunately I have a list of Dommes that fall into this category.....

Yeah this board does get very quiet at times