Background to this post... in a review I wrote I mentioned that I give free reign to a Domme to do as she pleases with me. This is true of even a first session. The Thomas, who I respect a lot, in response to that said the following: "After I have done a few satisfactory sessions with someone I will sometimes tell them, 'Do whatever you like this time.' I would never do that in a first session." Which made me think this would make a really good topic to discuss.

Specifically, as a client sub how do you approach a session in order to get what you want out of it? For the Dommes, what approaches do you feel most comfortable with as a Pro and which tends to bring you the most satisfaction at the end of a session?

My personal approach is that I always clearly communicate physical issues, limits (which for me includes marks) and have safewords. I also have what I think is an excellent list of the most popular BDSM and D/s activities that I have grouped/categorized by how I feel about them (Love them; enjoy them just for themselves; don't enjoy for themselves but do enjoy in service to a Domme, who enjoys having me do them; tolerate in service, but don't enjoy at all; and limits) as well as a list of fetishes that I have. All of this information is provided to a Domme before we ever meet and we may even discuss it at the beginning of a session (my preference is for her to ask any questions she has about items on that list rather than making me try to recite things from my terrible memory).

Once we get through that, I submit and its about TPE within my limits... even in a first session. I am not looking for a facilitator for specific proclivities or fetishes (which I expect fetishists are). Instead, I want to experience what it is like to submit to that particular Domme in all her glory. I want that Domme to completely enjoy themselves while playing with me and hopefully, I want them to find their way to either Domspace or even to their own orgasm (yes, I know this is against "the rules" of Pro Dommes but they are in complete control and making that choice for themselves as a Domme rather than as part of a requested session activity... and if this occurs, it almost never includes me actually touching them or even necessarily seeing them do so).

Does Domspace or an orgasm for the Domme actually occur most of the time? The answer is unfortunately no. However, allowing the Domme free reign is the only way to even approach those goals in my experience and even if she doesn't get all the way there, she does enjoy herself much more by doing what she loves. That enjoyment of me and my service by a Domme is absolutely what drives me during play. It takes me deep into subspace and it is where all of my enjoyment of a session derives from, even if I hate the activities involved.

Which is why I approach sessions the way that I do and know it is exactly the right thing for me,

My approach has evolved over time. Back in the prior century my standard procedure was to be upfront and clear about what I wanted which more often than not included role play.

The earliest exception to this was Mistress H. While she was delighted that I could take a full throttle thrashing with a belt she had some ideas of her own that she introduced into the sessions without asking my approval. She was also bossy and belittling. At first I found that erotic and was a frequent customer but eventually it grew annoying and I called it quits. It left me with a lingering unpleasant aftertaste. It was several years before I again did a session with a Domme.

When I finally resumed I still spelled out clearly what I wanted at the beginning. However as I noted in another thread I went through a phase where I played more from the Top than the bottom.
During that period I met Switch C who was a stripper at the time. She claim to have worked as a house Domme for half a year before becoming a stripper. At first we did spanking sessions in the club's champagne room though we also did a lot of lap dances. Eventually she agreed to do sessions at my place where we could do things we weren't permitted to do in the champagne room. We switched roles. Sometimes when she was at the club doing a lap dance we would discuss ideas and we were often on the same page. It was similar to phonesex except we were face to face and groin to groin. If she really liked the idea often a strange glassy eyed look would come over her face eventually and she would move very little for 2-3 minutes. I had deciphered this as being a "tell" for her having an orgasm.

My experience with C was in pivotal point in developing my interest in pleasing the kinky fantasies of the lady. This however was one of those Twilight Zone situations and one day she out of the blue informed me that she would no longer meet me outside the club and would soon stop working there as well.

A few years after that there was Mistress L a house Domme. I developed a very good chemistry with her despite the fact her spanking skills were only medium grade. With her the sessions became more and more about what she wanted to do.

She was very fond of strap on. One session she wanted to take me in an unusual position. However it involved me scrambling on top of some equipment in the medical room I refused because I thought there was too much risk on my falling and getting a fracture. It was uncomfortable having to refuse because I could she really wanted to do it.

Why did she want to do it?

Was it to impress me and earn my affection? Nope
Was it because she thought I might session more often and maybe tip a little more? I don't think that was it

The reason she wanted to do it

WAS

because she wanted to do it

And at the beginning of the very next session she announced that she had figured a safer alternative which she proceeded to do. One of the things about this position is it allowed her to move her face close to mine while she was pounding away. I could see lust in her eyes

There was an unusual form of CBT I devised when I was with Switch C. I suggested it to Mistress L and she LOVED it. Did it every session. More often than not she would invite any of the other Dommes not in session to come and watch. Now usually this adding other Dommes as an audience is done for the sake of the sub but in this case I really got the impression she meant this primarily as a treat for them not me.

Eventually she came up with what she thought was an enhancement to this technique. The first time she tried it things did not work out as she wanted. Indeed there was an unexpected result and the session ended early. That did not deter her and she devised what she was a clever workaround. This time she invited the audience very eager to share her kinky gratification with them. Once again the result was bad (and not in a good way) though not as bad as the prior time and the session did have to be cancelled. We talked a while afterwards and she said she felt guilty. I think she would've taken a few paddle swats at that point had I suggested that even though she normally didn't switch. But I didn't.

Afterwards I realized that she had devoted a lot of thought between sessions to this project during which she was wetter than the ocean.

My experience with C and L catalyzed a fascination with the kinky fantasies of women. Sometimes I do go into "Her fantasy is my fantasy" mode. On Mistress Ayn's forum in the thread about butt plugs I discussed one of those sessions.

Oh Asp, I think I love you. I hope others are out there taking notes.

Going into a first session, I always want to know what the sub's interests are and a whole lot more. you mentioned on a thread how you hated completing forms in order to be granted a session. I get that, but I still require one from each new sub. I have made Myself a mental note (because of your comment) to explain why I think that form is important and provide a link to the explanation on My website.

But back to the topic at hand . . . I love when a sub's primary goal is for Me to enjoy Myself. The smart ones know that's usually the best way for them to enjoy themselves and have a stellar session. But I also need to know what I am dealing with. If the sub hates strapon and that's what I would do if left to My own devices that day because I don't know he hates strapon, then neither of us will have as good a time as we could have. For a first session, I prefer a sundry list to pick from and a disclosure of any hard limits.

Once we know each other better, I can start to explore more territory and expand limits. Today I had a session with a sub I have seen 4 times previously. He mentioned before the session that he trusted Me and wanted to continue to explore new things, so today I added urethral sounds to our play and brought in another Domme to witness the humiliation of him having every hole filled. Both were firsts for him. All three of us had a great time and he left bleary eyed and walking funny.

Personally I need to feel that the sub is enjoying the journey as much as I am. That creates a feedback loop that we both feed on. I think it is very similar to your desire for TPE - when that loop is created, great things like Domme Space and subspace happen.

Thomas,

Thanks for the great breakdown of your history and how your approach has evolved over time. I totally agree that situations with one Domme will defintely change your attitude/approach with the next.

For me, there really isn't a history or a maturation. I started with this approach probably because I had no clue what I was doing, so I just gave them the lead and it always worked (hey, if I am contracting with an expert then I just need to trust them). However, I do want to clarify that the one thing that I have always been clear about (and that caused a problem between you and Mistress H) is about attitude.

I have always been really clear with Dommes that attitude is really important to me because, unlike you, I don't like role play. I also hate "Female Superiority" because I never feel inferior as a person to anyone and I never intentionally make a mistake or disobey. So, when a Domme decides that she needs to be that "bossy and belittling" type, it is like a role play where my mind shifts from "Yes, Mistress" to "whatever".

So, in my communications I always stated that the same activity can be a total turn-off for me if I see her as "the angry Domme" but totally amazing if she does it with an evil smile on her face and enjoyment in her head. That may be how I avoided the pitfall that you ran into.

During my entire time as a client sub (sometimes referenced as my reign of terror), I have always also played from the Top in non-Pro relationships so I totally understand the pull of that as well as the Dominant's mentality within both a scene and a relationship. However, I also had an incident with a Pro Domme who decided to submit to me that showed me that I although I am both a Top and a bottom, because I see the goal of both as exactly the same (pleasing and supporting Y/your partner with the difference only being in who makes the decisions), I can't do both with the same person.

I have had one local Domme in my time and we had an extremely intense personal connection that extended into a friendship beyond the walls of the dungeon (although not a romantic or personal service relationship). I would say I did at least 50 sessions with her over a 3-4 year period and that was only limited by her rules rather than my wants. So, one day, I show up for a session and she started as normal then had me lay on a medical table and keep my eyes closed (although I wasn't bound in any way) until she told me to open them. In the meantime, she had done a self-bondage thing and hung herself from a hook that was in the ceiling of the dungeon/play space. Shocked the living crap out of me, and once I processed it I was all for it.

We played and everything went well until she bratted for a second, my first reaction was to give her a really hard smack for the impudence. But... I couldn't do it. She wasn't just some girl or a sub, she was my Domme and I just couldn't hit her in that aggressive manner my instincts as a Dom told me to do in that moment. After that session, we went back to our normal mode and it was always awesome but it definitely taught me something about myself and I never again wanted to have that kind of kinky role-switching play with a Domme.

However, like your experience with Mistress L, it was insanely gratifying and really hot that she spend so much time planning and executing this kinky switch play. Because of my approach and willingness, I actually do get a lot of that kind of crazy planning (or just crazy activities borne out of "in-the-moment" creativity) with different Dommes I see... mostly ones I see on a regular basis and/or have moved into a more personal rather than purely Pro/client relationship with, but actually in first sessions in some cases.

This thread is borne out of the craziness I described in my review of Mistress Eva Cruz (which was a first session), but I have been put in a lot of very kinky/crazy situations such as:

- A session has been opened for a bunch of strangers (not Pro Dommes/subs but just kinky non-D/s people) to voyueristically watch

- "Kidnapped" and thrown into the trunk of a car then fully bound before being driven to some unknown place and abused for hours

- Forced intox by alcohol enema (understanding that I don't actually drink alcohol as a general rule) before/during play

- "Forced" intox by being ordered to go to a hotel bar and finish my drink when ordered to by text (I swear, I don't actually drink), while being cross-dressed under my clothes and with a CBT electrical device constantly going, or at least constant until she changed patterns by using her remote (which also controlled the patterns of a vibrator she used on herself at times.. although I don't know if that was the case when I was in the bar but definitely was before I was ordered to the bar) all this while having to make conversation with the bartender and other patrons.

- Completely bound and immobile on a hotel room bed and abandoned for hours.

- Being choked out until I was unconscious on the floor in front of a bunch of friends of mine at a photo shoot because of some smart-ass thing I said to one of my Dommes (but she did this was a HUGE smile on her face... especially after I was a crumpled heap on the floor).

- Put into an inescapable sleep sack and bound with a vibrating butt plug in my ass or CBT or electrical torture or nipple torture before being abandoned for an indeterminant amount of time (the sleep sack bondage happens a lot because I own that sleep sack and do offer to bring it if a Domme wants me to)

- Put into a chastity device and completely bound before being put into a coroner's bag (OMG, is that overpoweringly hot and muggy)

- Being made to go to an incredibly nasty "strip club" (which was really a glorified book store with a chair in another room) and get a private dance from the least attractive stripper available while locked in a chastity device and wearing frilly panties, then having to disclose my situation and hand her my phone so she could text with my Domme and participate in messing with me if she wanted (she didn't... although she did try to get me to have sex with her... uh, chastity device, WTF?!?)

- Made to sleep bound by chains overnight in a hotel room closet with orders not to make any noise because my Domme was asleep on the bed and was "a VERY light sleeper"

- Being bound in multiple ways and suffering multiple tortures while my Domme was doing a session in another room... or on the other side of the closet door (This actually refers to several different Dommes doing things like this rather than just one)

- Being made to settle a bet between a Domme of mine and her friend who was an escort about whether the escort could get me to cum in an hour doing whatever she wished other than prostate milking... with the bet being that if I didn't, the Domme would get the payment for that hour's session with the escort and if I did, I would have to double the session price and all money would go to the escort. My Domme and I won, but I think it was because I am really cheap rather than having that level of discipline or her having that much control over me

- Tied to a tree and beaten in a remote area before being made to run behind a car by a rope bound around my hands and my pants around my ankles and finally literally tied while hooded to a speed limit sign post next to the road and left there for a time (luckily it was remote enough that nobody came by but when my Domme drove back up, I had no way of knowing if it was her or someone else)

- Being bound and played with on a luggage cart at a hotel attached to an airport so that the two Dommes could easily move me around to where they wanted me to be

- Been used as a personal vibrator or toy by having a dildo strapped to some body part or another when the Domme decides she wants an orgasm

Of course, this list doesn't even cover the kind of crazy in-session play you describe that Mistress L did "because she wanted to do it" (which is amazingly hot to me) or every crazy situation I have been in (I already wrote too much.. per usual) or even acts that have been done to me (Statements like: "You want to shove what up my penis and then attach an electrical current to it?!?" or "What exactly do you mean by footing Mistress?" leap to mind). But, I think it does give you an idea of the kinds of things that happen when you make it all about the Domme and enable her to be as crazy/kinky/creative as she wants to be.

Though, I am definitely gonna look at Mistress Ayn's forum for the butt plug discussion now.

*SIGH* Talk about my getting to play in fantasy land...

Mistress Ayn,

I must respectfully disagree with your statement. It is not "very similar" to my desire... It is exactly my desire and that connectivity that occurs between Domme and sub when you manage to achieve it during play is not just Domspace and subspace but both of those combined and exponentially multiplied into something that is almost impossible to describe unless you have felt it (which I think we both have at some time).

In my reply to Thomas, I went into a whole bunch of incredibly fun and crazy adventures/experiences... Later, it also made me think of other ones that I had almost forgotten about and didn't include. I loved every one of them (maybe not every moment of every one of them because... there was definitely some REALLY painful torture in there) and those kinds of sessions are the "legendary" ones that impress, inspire, and entertain those around you.

For me, however, the sessions you are talking about don't necessarily come with the greatest story or the most extreme activities (well, not always... cause there was this one time, at band camp...). They just occur naturally in the way that the Domme and sub just link up at that particular time and place. A long time ago I had one of those experiences and I actually wrote about it at FetLife afterwards, so I am including the link if you wish to read it: "Broken".

This is not the only time that amazing connection and loop has ever occurred, nor the only Domme that I have ever connected with on this level during a session (although, to give proper credit, this was the "local Domme" I mentioned in my reply to Thomas), but looking from the outside this was just a normal session rather than one where barriers were broken or new ground covered.

That particular time (and others with other Dommes) do happen after long and well-established D/s play relationships. Some where barriers are broken or limits pushed, as you did with that particular sub today. However, I have also had a first time session that can only be described as tantric in the way we connected with each other (unfortunately, this was the only time I have ever reached that place) and again, there was nothing extreme or crazy about the activities involved. Just right time, place, attitudes, circumstances, etc... coming together.

However, you are 100% correct that the only way to have all those things come together is when both parties are about fulfilling the needs of their partner (or three partners, a very happy clown and a donkey named "Sal"... hmm, I am just obsessed with that band camp story right now). This doesn't generally occur when you are doing things the sub hates (unless doing the things they "hate" actually is part of what they need) or if the Domme is acting as a fetish delivery system rather than being able to be free to do the things she loves.

That does require either a long and practiced relationship or really good communication at the beginning. To be clear, I know that most client subs completely suck at that and that is why your form is awesome. I know that by asking questions and getting different information about fetishes and proclivities it allows you to know what to play to and what to avoid, but it also allows you to correlate the data and know to go to places that the sub doesn't even know they like (ask me if I like humiliation/degradation, the answer is no... but, one Domme was practiced and experienced enough to know that how much I crave intensity and connectivity translated into an amazing experience when she came in close and slapped my face before spitting in my mouth... which was barrier breaking for me at that time).

So, when I say I hate filling out forms it is not because I don't see the benefits of that activity for most people. I say it specifically in relation to ME and that is because I have a well practiced (and I think excellent) way of communicating information to Dommes that I have to completely change to fit into a form... if it is even possible to do so. Don't even get me started on my rants about purely web based forms (which I know doesn't apply to you) that screw-up and I have to actually fill it out multiple times or that never even actually get delivered because of technical issues on the site. In most cases, the form either leaves a lot out of the conversation because it is purely activity based or it asks a question in such a way that it leads me down the wrong path when answering it (I tend to get too literal with answering the question in the form rather than the intent behind it).



Sorry... that quote has nothing to do with this reply, but I just can't get enough of that statement from you. Think I am gonna go get a bumper sticker made so I can see it all the time.

Asp

I feel your pain on the electronic forms. How often in business websites do you go to extreme effort to complete those, just to get an error at the end? Way to often. I have contemplated adding one to My site because they do have added benefits when they work, but comments like this keep Me from doing it.

I completely understand your frustration over having to fit your way of communicating to a particular Domme's form too. In a perfect world, there would be a standardized one, but we know that would not be possible either. I have used My form in its current state for so long that I can just glance at it and find the answer I seek. If I decide I want to use a blindfold, I can just glance at the form and see if the sub wears contacts or not, so I know what kind of blindfold to use, as an example. If the sub provides Me the information in his own format, I would have to read the entire email again seeking what I want, only to find it's not included. So trust Me, it's worth your pain as a sub to get the Domme the information she wants in her preferred format.

Having said that, I do believe all Mistress forms should give the sub the ability to express himself openly in an "added notes" sections or something similar.

Silly boy.

HAHAHAHA! ASPX, I think you are my session Guru! great guidance to a session for mutual enjoyment, I think this is one of the reasons I hope to one day enjoy an ongoing relationship w the same Domme, I would be excited to expand into things that SHE enjoys.

For me the best sessions I have ever had is when the Domme has intimate knowledge of my kinks and desires which are broad. This takes time and once She knows me and the way I react, it is best for me to have zero control through TPE, and for the Domme to take me on a journey that She desires and I am not allowed a safe word. Since She already knows me and my limits, my truest desire is to really submit and let her pleasure me, or torture me to her hearts content that fulfils Her desire to have an epic experience. In the end by doing that I will have an incredible encounter. By now Mistress Ayn has learned this about me and I am there now to please Her, to serve Her, and to surrender to Her for Her Pleasure, amusement and thrills. Then the experience for both Domme and sub shall be superb, but as I said at the beginning this takes months/years of sessions, communication and intimate knowledge to take a sub there. The best part is Mistress Ayn is a Pro who catches on quickly and in a few weeks I cannot wait to see where She and my Mistress will take me, now that my interests have grown significantly as my Mistress has taken CBT (Her favorite), Femme play, needles, and severe corporal punishment to new heights and She is also preparing me to be permanently locked in chastity under her absolute control once I lose more weight.